This Meetup is cancelled

Hidden Dragon, Zion's National Park East Side

  • Harts Gas & Food

    260 South Green Springs Drive, Washington, UT (map)

    37.126614 -113.524033

  • This is a strenuous, Class 3 approximately 5.5 miles with approximately 2,000 ft elevation gain/loss. We will leave Harts in Washington at 8:00 am. We will car pool to the east side of Zion’s and park west of the second tunnel before descending into a dry river bed on the south side of the highway. We’ll follow the river bed to a steep slick rock ascent. After finishing the climb we will work our way towards a view of the ‘Hidden Dragon’, a sandstone formation that, for those with a good imagination, looks much like a resting dragon, where we’ll have lunch. After lunch we will continue our trek, enjoying the incredible views of the east side of the park including a beautiful view of Parunuwheap, as we descend to the vehicles. Expect a considerable amount of scrambling and some exposure on this hike. Since this hike is in Zion's there will be a maximum of 12 hikers. No dogs or children will be permitted on this hike.

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  • Alice W.

    Thanks for the update.

    April 11, 2013

  • Tom M.

    Up at 6 a.m., checked weather forecasts. It has changed, although weather.com is still forecasting 30% chance of rain for Zion National Park, the National Weather Service is now forecasting 40% chance of rain for the area around the East Temple. That is a significant chance of precipitation that would likely make the lichen covered sandstone slippery. It is not worth risking a fall. I am sorry for the late notice but I will have to cancel the hike and try to reschedule it for another day. If anyone did not get this cancellation notice, I will drive to Hart to make sure if there people still showing up for the hike, they are notified.

    1 · April 11, 2013

    • wendy

      thanks for the update. Please re-schedule this wonderful hike. And thanks for keeping us safe!!!!

      April 11, 2013

  • Sue

    I got it...thanks for the notice.

    April 11, 2013

  • wendy

    looking forward to this hike. I will need to take my car to Springdale. I am going to stay in town and go to a class that night. So I am hoping I can jump in with someone at the entrance somewhere. I will meet with everyone in the morning.

    April 10, 2013

    • Tom M.

      Where will you need the ride from Wendy? Be sure to keep your eye on the Zion weather tomorrow.

      April 10, 2013

  • Tom M.

    ust got back from an abbreviated version of tomorrow's hike. Some moisture still in Clear Creek drainage, everything else looked pretty dry from the past two days of weather. Went up the steep slope, hung a left at the top and down by Cockeyed Falls. It was a beautiful day in Zion's. There currently is a 30% chance of rain going with weather.com for Zion National Park tomorrow a.m., and 20% going with NOAA. If it is raining tomorrow, of course we'll have to reschedule the hike, or if it is greater than 30% POP. Otherwise, looking forward to it.

    April 10, 2013

  • Cheryl K.

    I need to hike with my daughter tomorrow

    April 10, 2013

  • Bill L.

    Will have to withdraw from this hike. I am sure Tom is a fine leader, we must all know our own capabilities. There seem to be some confusion on the class rating of this hike? Hope to go on this one in the future!

    April 8, 2013

    • Tom M.

      Sorry you'll miss it Bill. There is no confusion about the class rating. One member of the club simply holds a different opinion about it. Class ratings are very subjective, but if you're unsure, you've made the right decision.

      1 · April 9, 2013

  • Tom M.

    If the slope is still wet, we may need to reschedule the hike so please check new posts Wednesday evening.

    April 8, 2013

  • Tom M.

    I think it would be nice if we could all move on from this discussion. Although it has been suggested to me that I should delete these posts and start with a clean slate, I don't think censoring discussion is in anyones best interest but I do think it would be nice to get back to the hike at this point. Thank-you all for your posts. I plan on heading up to the start of the hike on Wednesday afternoon after my morning hike, and after the rain stops to make sure the lichen on the rock is not too wet. If anyone would like to come with me and see what the start of the hike looks like (that area that more or less started this discussion), I'd be happy to meet you at Harts in Washington. Let me know if anyone is interested and we can come up with a meeting time.

    1 · April 8, 2013

  • Ginger N.

    Charlie, I like and appreciate your comments. Thank you. I hike a lot with Tom and he is a very good leader and very responsible. I have done this hill many times and it is a real huffer but no ropes are necessary. Good trusty boots and a few hands on for balance and stability to get to another level maybe be required depending on the route up you choose. Then again wet slippery moss can add an extra challenge. Know what you are capable of or comfortable doing SAFELY. If you haven't hiked on the slickrock mountains on the East side of Zion this is not a good beginner hike for you.

    2 · April 8, 2013

    • stephen m.

      Good points, Ginger. You are doing what I'm advocating.

      April 8, 2013

  • John G.

    Have to drop out, conflict came up, sigh...

    April 8, 2013

  • stephen m.

    Folks, This was NEVER about Tom OR his Leadership. I agree with you all that Tom is a wonderful, competent Leader. Please try and tune in to the ISSUES we were raising. We both feel they are important. Chere wrote a response to us about this whole dialogue that Tom and I feel is "Spot On". I hope she'll share it with everyone. There already have been close calls I've witnessed and helped out to avoid injury. I think Tom could've handled them as well as anyone. But let's try and help the relatively inexperienced (new to steep sandstone and real exposure) anticipate for themselves when they're not quite yet prepared for these 'climbing' hikes. As the club is currently constituted, a format of experienced leadership OPENLY discussing/debating their concerns where everyone can see them is what makes this club special and a great starting point for those who are uncertain and want diverse views on what they'll be getting into.

    1 · April 8, 2013

  • charlie z.

    Although I am unable to make this hike, I would like to say a few things. If an individual has any question as to what a hike entails they should e mail the leader privately under his/her name and ask the pertinent questions they have to in order to decide whether to go or not. Other people putting their thoughts as to how difficult a hike is or is not on the this page just muddies the water. The leaders try to describe it the best they can based on their knowledge and experience. If you need more info just ask the leaders privately.
    I have been on a few hikes with Tom and found him to be very capable and his descriptions accurate. I did e mail him as described above on one hike and he was very responsive and helpful and even gave me his phone number.

    1 · April 7, 2013

    • stephen m.

      Obviously I disagree with Zerilli's point of view. Experienced hikers who have differences about a specific hike should open their discussion. Rather than "muddy the water", it encourages folks to think and and ask the hike leaders about their experience and any particular concerns they may have. L

      April 8, 2013

    • charlie z.

      I am an experienced hiker but I would not publicly question a leaders description. I think it is more respectful to talk to them on the side with any concerns and let them change things up if they want. You can take 10 people on the same hike and get ten opinions on difficulty and challenge. This kind of discussion should probably on the bulletin board and not in this narrative so I will leave it from here.

      April 8, 2013

  • Debra h.

    Sorry. I can't make it

    April 8, 2013

  • Annabel

    This group is too strong for me. I will hold you guys up. Have a blast! Mark, now you can go...

    April 7, 2013

    • Tom M.

      Sorry you won't be going Annabel. It's a beautiful area and as far as I'm concerned we aren't going to rush through it. You would have done fine. I hope you weren't discouraged by some of the discussion here.

      April 8, 2013

  • charlie z.

    Tom is a very capable and responsible leader. I would hate for stuff like this to discourage the leaders, remember they volunteer to do this! We all should focus on having fun while being true to our abilities. Hope you all have a great time enjoying our area. That is what it is all about.

    2 · April 7, 2013

    • Tom M.

      Thanks Charlie, we'll miss you on the hike.

      April 8, 2013

  • Elizabeth M.

    (Looks like *I* have been busy on here! Well, there is an Elizabeth and there's a "Steve"--we use the same computer sometimes--got to watch for that.) Seems to me that this Hidden Dragon hike wall, belonging to Tom McKee, originator, is THE place for this discussion since the waitlisters are all here. I've been having conversations with other hikers about the subjective nature of language; the subjectivity out of which things are described. It is all about the leader's call AND YET there is no final authority in the out of doors, excepting oneself. It will always be tricky business to describe a hike and its level of difficulty. (Wasn't there a parallel issue in language used in the first Hell Hole Hike and its sequel this coming Sunday?)

    April 5, 2013

  • stephen m.

    Whenever hands are required for an ascent (at least when I taught climbing in Seattle), that jumps the grading system into at least class 3, if not 4, depending on the leader's ability to use a rope properly. If Fred Hauptmann and others currently on the wait list want to do this hike I'd be happy to be the event organizer for it on the day before or the day after. A permit is not required for day trips - at least in my research of Zion's website. Let me know, wait list folks!!

    April 5, 2013

    • Tom M.

      Don't think that overloading this comment section, with this discussion serves any further, constructive purpose. Hopefully if there is animus towards "another hiking club in our area" it isn't being transferred to me because of my association with that club.

      April 5, 2013

    • stephen m.

      nope

      April 5, 2013

  • Tom M.

    To all participants on this hike, please note Stephen Mauer's comments/concerns and my past posts and realize the first part of this hike is steep, very steep but I have not seen a need to be on all fours on the trip up. The classification system Stephen refers to that is causing so much confusion is somewhat subjective. If you are not comfortable hiking up steep slick rock, or with some exposure as you go up, then you may not be comfortable with the first and last part of this hike. Feel free to e-mail or call me with any questions/comments. I will provide my phone number on request.

    April 5, 2013

  • Tom M.

    I hiked this yesterday and would like to emphasize a few things: the first .7-1 mile is pretty much straight up. Lichen covers much of the rock and so it can be very slippery when wet. You should wear shoes with a good sticky sole. Yesterday the weather was in the high sixties, so it was still cool but the exertion on the first climb heated things up fairly quickly. Bring plenty of water and electrolytes. Hiking poles may need to be stowed for the ascent, because hands might come in handy for climbing up the slickrock. I am sure I burned more than a peanut butter and jelly sandwich worth of calories on this hike, bring plenty of food to replace what you will burn. The views are beautiful and the descent around Cockeyed Falls is awesome. If everyone ensures they are properly prepared it will be a very enjoyable day. Please remember we are each responsible for our own safe return.

    March 28, 2013

    • stephen m.

      Too bad another hiking club in our area doesn't seem to share the mature attitude in your last sentence.

      March 28, 2013

    • stephen m.

      I'll be happy to sponsor a prequel or sequel - let me know whoever is interested

      April 5, 2013

  • fred h.

    Tom,,, is there any chance of a second smaller group following at a discreet distance so others can do the hike. If not, no problem. Thanks

    April 4, 2013

    • fred h.

      Good call, thanks for the reply.

      April 4, 2013

    • stephen m.

      Fred - check out my post above.

      April 5, 2013

  • stephen m.

    Some may not realize how really STEEP (and exposed) that first section of slickrock is - class 3-4 climb I figure. . .

    April 5, 2013

  • Melanie

    Oh, sorry......just saw it. Thanks anyway. :)

    March 29, 2013

  • Melanie

    Where is the Harts in Washington?

    March 29, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Can someone snaps GPS coordinates for this, I could go on a weekend but not during the week. Thanks

    March 22, 2013

Cancelled

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