addressalign-toparrow-leftarrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcameraccwchatcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-checkcircle-with-crosscircle-with-pluscrossdots-three-verticaleditemptyheartexporteye-with-lineeyefacebookfolderfullheartglobegmailgoogleimageimagesinstagramlinklocation-pinmagnifying-glassmailminusmoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1outlookpersonplusprice-ribbonImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartickettrashtriangle-downtriangle-uptwitteruseryahoo

Counter Apologetics Group - Brainstorming Session

Hello, militant SacFANs!

We're recruiting for a counter-apologist squad that will plant the banner of reason in enemy territory. Arm yourselves with your laptops and books and gear up your rations of java and pizza. We'll storm the gates of evolution-deniers and religious nationalists by taking the debate to them.

A planning session will launch September 15th, Sunday at 6:15 p.m.

We'll be brainstorming our battle plans for scouting and engaging the enemy, as well as future recruiting and training. Ultimately our goal is to publicly undermine the lies and fallacies apologists use to coerce their targets.
Please feel free to bring a notepad and pen.
One of our newer members, John Keese, will be facilitating this meeting.
Location information:
I have reserved the banquet room for this event, so we will have a fairly private meeting with everyone.
Take 80 to Rocklin Rd., it's one block north, away from Sierra College
Round Table Pizza's number: (916)[masked]

Join or login to comment.

  • Judy S.

    A believer thinks Boghossian's tactics wouldn't work on him. Notice, though, that all he claims at the end is that he would really have some solid reasons for believing, but then he doesn't say what any of them are. He leaves his readers thinking there are reasons for faith, but gives them no help. Anyway, read this to see how the other side is gearing up to counter the Boghossian counter of asking how they know they are right: http://www.breakpoint.org/features-columns/breakpoint-columns/entry/2/23382

    September 21, 2013

  • Judy S.

    I find no other local group addressing the same audience (believers).

    Public at large - AOF, HAGSA, Brights, AU, Sac CoR
    Students at large - SSA groups
    Atheists - SacFAN, online discussion groups
    Governments and/or Legislators - Sac FFRF, Secular Coalition for California

    Our name should reflect our unique mission.

    Ideas so far:

    Rational Response Squad
    Avant!
    Counter-Apologetics Group
    Atheist Access Team
    On-Call Atheists
    Atheists Without Borders
    Atheist Resource Team
    Atheists Taking Action
    Positive Atheists
    Active Atheists of Greater Sacramento
    Sacramento Atheist and Outreach Resource Team
    Resource & Volunteer CoalitionAtheist Outreach

    Start with the word "Atheist", then add:

    PICK ONE FROM COLUMN A:
    Outreach
    On Call
    Resource
    De-vangelism
    Action
    Impact
    Socratic
    Activist

    PICK ONE FROM COLUMN B:
    Team
    Group
    Activists
    Coalition

    Your ideas? Keep it simple, focused and obvious. And use the word "atheist".

    2 · September 18, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    I suggest we call the multifaceted outreach group "Avant!" (French command for moving forward). I think solidarity with the French and acknowledging the Enlightment's birth in the salons is a good enough reason to use a foreign term. Also, for you militants and atheists, the "A" graphic could a version of the red atheist "A."

    1 · September 17, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      AVANT!

      1 · September 17, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      or Volunteer Advocate...

      September 17, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    So a big problem with counter apologetics is that they tend to focus on really lame Christian arguments (Ken Ham, Ray Comfort, Kent Hovind) while ignoring (or being entirely ignorant of) the more sophisticated arguments. Literalism may be common enough in our area, but if one avoids more substantial arguments one is guilty of being as simple-minded in one's counter apologetics as fundies are in their beliefs. For example, a counter apologist could dismiss the authorship of the Gospels as being anonymous with the wave of a hand (because Bart said it), but are they familiar with McGrew's detailed and (fairly) scholarly argument for apostolic authorship? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gldvim1yjYM

    2 · September 15, 2013

    • Derek M.

      Gary, I think that's right. A large percentage of American believers tie their religious commitment to some pseudo-transendental experience leading to conversion or "confirmation"­ of belief. The rest associate their belief with commitment to family, social norms, and a few other intra-social factors.

      1 · September 17, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Vince, McGrew mentions in this video that he has dealt elsewhere with the accusation that Paul did not know anything about the gospel stories or parables. I haven't been able to find this yet. Do you happen to have a link?

      1 · September 17, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    I noticed that the term "Christian humanists" was used a few times during the discussion. I disagree with labeling religionists as humanists if they believe that the source of morality and moral authority is non-human. Religionists may be "humane' or "humanitarian" and believe that the primary object of morality is the well-being of humanity, but if they seek authority outside of human reason and autonomy, I do not think they should be referred to as humanists.

    1 · September 17, 2013

    • Sacramento R.

      In fact, the Humanist Manifesto III states clearly there is no supernatural.

      September 17, 2013

  • GaryA

    For the folks that were interested in lobbying:
    http://www.meetup.com/SacFAN/events/140654842/
    Rachael Harrington created this event and she is very capable and knowledgable and you could learn a lot from doing this event with her.

    1 · September 17, 2013

  • GaryA

    Resources and notes part 2 of 3:
    Some of the sub-groups or projects we discussed were:
    Volunteering as atheists while labeling ourselves atheists
    Secular live event/crisis/recovery/self-help resource group (wedding, funeral, birth events)
    Debaters
    Lobbyists
    Online & social network outreach
    Marketing, press releases, on-call responding to media

    Some of the conceptual discussions:
    -Faith isn't a virtue, let's expose that.

    -Stages of leaving religion:
    +Pre-contemplative (denial)
    +Contemlpative (Not ready)
    +Preparation (Getting ready)
    +Action (Ready)
    +Maintenance (Done)

    September 17, 2013

  • GaryA

    Some of what was mentioned (more to come)
    Skeptics Annotated Bible
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
    Peter Boghassian's series on www.thinkingchristian.net
    http://www.thinkingchristian.net/series/peter-boghossian/
    Youtube playlist of Peter Boghassian
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7zbEiNnY5M&feature=share&list=PL95gDxW7P89H4_z64tojdD4Nosfb7Uzz4
    The Sacramento Coalition of Reason calendar
    http://unitedcor.org/sacramento/page/home
    Skepticism 101 resources
    http://www.skeptic.com/skepticism-101/
    Center for Inquiry resources
    http://www.csicop.org/resources
    Logical Fallacies chart
    http://theholydark.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/logical-fallacies.jpg
    This is the hotline project that is not yet active, but it is for people leaving religion. I was more thinking of an Ask an Atheist type hotline, though.
    http://recoveringfromreligion.org/hotline-project/

    1 · September 16, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      This wasn't mentioned at the meeting, but this is an interesting website that may have some good information. http://new.exchristia...­

      September 16, 2013

  • Judy S.

    Here's a YouTube about Presuppositional apologetics. I wonder if we could string some videos together, or make our own, or record our future sessions, as a sort of "online class". For reals. ( 5 1/2 min. video http://youtu.be/X_F8DiMqOTE)

    September 11, 2013

    • Derek M.

      While I really wanted to attend this meeting, I think I'm going to forego this one. I've got too many personal responsibilities going at once and my brother from out of town made a surprise weekend visit. If someone can take minutes, that'd be superb! :)

      September 15, 2013

    • Judy S.

      Our third online student! This class is really growing!

      1 · September 15, 2013

  • bwilson

    Too far for me to go on limited income.

    September 6, 2013

  • Freedom

    What a wonderful idea. I'm sorry I live so far away or I would attend.

    August 30, 2013

    • David D.

      LOL, Judy!

      September 2, 2013

    • Shelli L. E.

      Freedom!! We are carpooling, Sweetie! Let us know if you still want to go, and we will get you there!

      1 · September 12, 2013

  • Brian

    just ran accross this; A Manual for Creating Atheists
    avail Nov 2013
    A Manual for Creating Atheists
    by Peter Boghossian
    Link: http://amzn.com/1939578094

    September 11, 2013

    • Shelli L. E.

      However, you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed person!

      September 12, 2013

    • Brian

      yeah, apparently just seeing the image of "the thinker" makes people question.

      1 · September 12, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    If there are any reading materials or handouts with questions/agendas, we would really like to have them in advance. Perhaps a Box or Dropbox account or Google Drive links?

    September 9, 2013

    • GaryA

      There are currently no handouts. This first session is about brainstorming. Not necessarily the arguments themselves.

      September 9, 2013

    • Judy S.

      The podcast series seems to be a series of one intro made 3 years ago. Nothing more; too bad. He does also have up a video of a talk he gave, though. I haven't watched it yet. http://commonsenseath...­

      September 10, 2013

  • Timmy

    Unfortunately I will no longer be able to attend because I will be traveling for work. But I hope to catch the next one!

    September 9, 2013

  • Timmy

    As a former seminary student and minister (and now atheist of course), I can act as the 'mock' apologist with how they might react and counter argue against us. Should be fun and informative :)

    2 · September 5, 2013

  • Derek M.

    I'll go if I can tag along with someone. :)

    August 30, 2013

  • Brian

    I can bring in my set of FFRF "non-tracts"

    1 · August 29, 2013

14 went

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy