addressalign-toparrow-leftarrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcameraccwchatcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-checkcircle-with-crosscircle-with-pluscrosseditemptyheartexportfacebookfolderfullheartglobegmailgoogleimageimagesinstagramlinklocation-pinmagnifying-glassmailminusmoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1outlookpersonplusprice-ribbonImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartickettrashtriangle-downtriangle-uptwitteruseryahoo

Cafe Discussion - The Environment vs. The Economy

Is there necessarily a tradeoff between economic growth and environmental sustainability? Often times it seems what is best for our economy is at odds with what is best for the environment, but can efforts to protect our environment also benefit our natural environment? This has implications for climate change, endangered species, pollution, health, jobs, livelihoods. Can we have it all?

Join or login to comment.

  • Andy B.

    Climate Change Town Hall meeting on May 17 - see you all there?!?

    http://www.350sacramento.org/

    May 13, 2014

  • Rainer M

    It's always an exchange of opinions, perceptions, and facts. This meting was, as most I have attended, lively and interesting.
    Perhaps it's due to the common interest that the opinions offered frequently do not differ too much. Truly clashing viewpoints are rarely presented; hostility does not arise. The occasionally "extremist" views are resented with enough hyperbole to make their true nature transparent.

    May 4, 2014

  • Rainer M

    Economy (specifically maximized private property) takes precedence over any and all other considerations.
    The environment has taken hits during the earth's history and survived nicely.
    OK, one hit lead to the demise of dinosaurs and many other life forms. But life recovered pretty quickly within a few million years to the benefit of mammals. But that doesn't mean we should alter our behavior towards the environment. We always can install an air filter if the air gets too contaminated, and a water filter if the water gets too dirty. A little dirt is healthy anyway, they say ...

    April 25, 2014

    • Rainer M

      The fictional air and water filter, Andy, is the representative of any half cured argument that puts faith in some future generation to solve problems we have caused out of indifference and greed.
      The criminal contaminations we are causing will not be solved by those that are living today. The decontamination efforts will, so I predict, cause great concern for the people a few generations from now. I predict that the people in a few hundred years will curse us for our destructive behaviour.

      May 2, 2014

    • Pat H.

      I was wondering, but now it is evident, you were being a little facetious with the filter comment; and I agree. But I don't think the economy is more important than the environment. I am reaching a little beyond my depth here, so correct me if I am wrong, but, aside from the need to be prepared militarily, couldn't we all be doing fine without all the industrial and technological progress? If our predecessors, and we, were to have put the brakes on development would we be better off now. During this period of industry the incidence of cancer has increased from about 5% to about 35%. And it seems many people feel like they are spending more time dealing with life than enjoying it. I know that for my wife and myself it seems like we have way less leisure time than our parents had. But, that's just a feeling.

      May 3, 2014

  • Pat H.

    I was literally on my way to the meetup yesterday when I got a message that stopped me, so I missed it. I read the comments and just thought to add a brief response. Whatever we hear is inclined to be modulated, subconsciously, to fit our beliefs by our personal schema, hence, all the different perspectives we hear
    on this subject. We also tend to run in the same groove, it’s human nature; therefore we talk about solving problems in conventional terms. One of our more astute ancestors (A. E.) says we have to learn to think differently if we are to survive. Consider that even the most isolated bush tribes knew they couldn’t continually expand and over use their resources without experiencing the negative effects of such short term thinking.

    I think relying too much on science and technology, and not enough on good-old common sense, is working against us.

    April 27, 2014

    • Pat H.

      Rainer,

      May 3, 2014

    • Pat H.

      Rainer, I'm sure your comment are are right! But, that doesn't change the notion that we need to start asking 'if we should' rather than 'if we could'. Sure, we can eventually build things which are so small we can't find them when we lay them down somewhere, but in terms of good-living (?) I'm just saying we have to make decisions based on whether the outcome enhances quality of life. Did all the pollution, billions of dollars, lives lost, resources wasted in space exploration enhance our lives today? Technology; my phone takes pictures, and I could watch movies on it ( I think), but it works poorly as a phone, and they keep making millions more of them. People can link up with everyone on a variety of social media; what's this doing to the current generations real relationships? I think we already passed the point at which children need to go out and build something with their hands, they just put a battery in it or do it from the couch with a virtual interface.

      May 3, 2014

  • Craig D.

    I fully intend to inhabit the Devil's Advocate position on this topic!

    2 · April 25, 2014

    • Rainer M

      Cool. I'm not alone with my progressive views.

      April 25, 2014

    • Rainer M

      Yeah. Right. Craig, I'm still waiting for your great performance.

      1 · May 2, 2014

  • Craig D.

    Many, many points of view were shared - (here are just a few):
    "Humankind only gets serious about a problem after it becomes catastrophic"
    "The Earth and Life will go on with or without us/We are probably doomed/Cockroaches will dominate the planet"
    "We are on the right path/Technology will save us"
    "Technology will NOT save us/Technology creates more problems than it solves"
    "The solutions are simple/We have the answers/We just lack the political WILL"
    "Special interests/Corruption in the system/Slow government is the problem"
    "Flood the market with plastic ivory/Change people's values"
    "There is no problem/Nothing needs to be done, the markets will solve the problem"
    "Government regulation/cap and trade/carbon tax"
    "FAIR trade, not Free trade/Price products fairly/Create planet-wide environmental regulations"

    April 26, 2014

    • Rainer M

      Royanne, rotate the :-D 90 degrees to the right. Stress your imagination generously and envision to see two eyes, a nose, and a wide open mouth, laughing.

      May 2, 2014

    • Rainer M

      Craig, You do keep notes. I have nick-named you "The Notebook".
      Keeping in line with tomorrow's topic, I suspect you to be an agent of some initial agency, keeping track of our theories and opinions.
      Ahh, it feels so good to have started a new conspiracy theory.

      1 · May 2, 2014

  • Royanne M.

    Thank you for creating this meetup Brandon. You are a unique, courageous, interesting and thoughtful man who I like and respect. I was compelled to share this! Thx

    April 27, 2014

    • Brandon N.

      Thanks for the complements Royanne :)

      April 27, 2014

  • Andy B.

    How do we go about making an economy change with the times and allow not just money for the few, but for all? How have we done so in the past?

    Much of our history is about innovation and production. We find things to invent and we sit down and work on it, adding to it and finding ways to profit.

    Since it is very likely the environment will cause us trouble, not least of which is in the limitation of fossil fuels, we can increase our economic capacity while working on ways to increase our energy production. Since we know more about what happens with 'dirty' fuels and how that appears to affect the heat capture of the planet, we can use that to determine a good area to gain economic strength and flexibility is in discovering 'green' energy and working to improve our ability to recycle (cheaper materials) and add to those persons able to find employment.

    April 25, 2014

    • Royanne M.

      Where were you? I have a burning question to ask you Andy.

      April 27, 2014

    • Andy B.

      I was at the meet up. What question?

      April 27, 2014

  • Janet B.

    I apologize for missing last Saturdays meeting. I'll try again. Can I have a phone number to call?
    susan, what is an INTP? I am an 8 on the Enneagram.

    April 20, 2014

    • Susan H.

      I'm finding it wonderful (!) to meet people who understand the joy of rolling new and challenging ideas around in the brain.

      April 20, 2014

    • Royanne M.

      I am proud to say that I am an INTP (100% on the T). That most likely has changed since I am no longer employed by a Fortune 100 corporation, TG.

      April 27, 2014

  • David Z.

    Interesting discussion.

    April 26, 2014

  • Janet B.

    Yes we can have it all but first we must get sane. I'm happy we are having so much arguing etc. etc. the last few years. People are telling their truth for the first time in our existence! We will sort it all out. More later.

    April 25, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    Sorry that I have to bow out of this one but I agreed to help a friend with a wine tasting event. See you next time.

    April 24, 2014

15 went

Our Sponsors

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy