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Cafe Discussion - Transgender and Intersex Issues

  • Jun 21, 2014 · 10:00 AM
  • This location is shown only to members

Within our society we have this traditional idea that everyone is either male or female purely by nature, but many people in recent decades have presented evidence and formulated arguments to challenge this notion. Is the traditional male/female dichotomy still defensible? What is the basis for gender and/or sex differentiation? Can one change their gender or sex? There are societal, political, and legal implications of these questions.

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  • Rainer M

    It's a somewhat depressing subject for it involves a lot of human misery.
    Some people are physiologically not clearly defined; and some of them seek clarity.
    There are also those who feel the other way (the opposite gender), and they, too, seek a solution.
    A very few want to change out of a whim. A true physical transformation, however, at today's development of medicine, is not possible.
    Transformations are surgical, hormonal, and psychological approaches. The physical changes are cosmetic and remain "skin deep".
    That adds to the feeling of misery. I think that sometime in the future, a true transformation will be possible. In our discussion were opinions voiced that centered on the cost for today's transformation, and a point of view was stressed, that the cost should not have to be borne by public funds. Where and what is the limit, then, I ask.
    Who makes the decision about a person'd mental happiness?
    The monetary denial has a fundamentalist element.

    1 · June 22, 2014

    • Brandon N.

      In all cases they may threaten suicide or worse. In all cases, these people probably have healthy functioning bodies and they can save up their own money to pay for the treatment or surgery they desire. How are these situations different? I haven't heard any attempt at explaining how they are different. I've heard reiterations of the same line of reasoning, but no genuine attempt to explain why transgenderism should be publicly funded but not any of the other aforementioned situations where one wishes to change their healthy and functioning body.

      June 27, 2014

    • Pat H.

      I started a tread on Gender. I think we were asked to do so after the meetups. I am posting my comments there.

      1 · June 27, 2014

  • Al

    One measure of the civilization of a society is by how humanely the members of that society treat each other. So, do you want to maximize our civilization? It's going to cost you.

    2 · June 25, 2014

    • Brandon N.

      I suppose another measure of civilization is to what degree the average person is in touch with reality or living in a fantasy in which they expect collective funding for their desires rather than simply being content with what they have and maybe being willing to work and take the personal initiative to make their desires reality

      June 26, 2014

    • Brandon N.

      Yes, and another measure of civilization is the degree to which the average person thinks reasonably and rationally and understands the difference between what is necessary for adequate life and alternatively what is merely desired. On the one hand we can use objective and logically consistent measures for what people need, and on the other hand we can let our bleeding hearts take hold and use our hard earned and scarce resources to help a few others realize their unnecessary and self-destructive desires. Yes, there are different measures of civilization

      June 26, 2014

  • Al

    I know it's after the fact but...
    There were three men who wanted to cross a river. They just couldn't figure out how to do it. After several failed attempts one of them knelt down and prayed, "Dear Lord, please give me the endurance and strength to cross the river." He stood up, jumped in the river and swam across. The other two were impressed by this, so one of them knelt down and prayed, "Dear Lord, please give me the skills and strength to cross the river." He stood up, built a boat from sticks and rowed across the river. The third guy knelt down and prayed, "Dear Lord, please give me the knowledge and wisdom to cross the river." He stood up, turned into a woman, and walked across on the bridge.

    1 · June 22, 2014

  • Rainer M

    This meetup was ok. Some polar positions emerged but no-one got killed.

    June 22, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      And no one put an eye out. We play it mostly pretty safe. ;-)

      June 22, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      And a few of us who were left sat at a small table in the shade at the wine bar. And it being a wine bar, two of us got things to eat and drink! :-)

      June 22, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    Good discussion.

    June 21, 2014

  • Rainer M

    Sadly, the meeting was attended by males only.
    No-one was willing to represent the female point of view.

    June 21, 2014

    • Melissa M.

      I read the other post for a different place so it looks like I wasn't even close to you guys.

      June 21, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      Who's Anna?!?
      Chopped liver???

      ;->

      June 21, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    started off slow but got spirited later.

    June 21, 2014

  • Brandon N.

    How come none of the women who RSVP'd are here? We wanted some gender balance for this discussion :(

    June 21, 2014

  • Jennifer R.

    Hi All, I'm new to the group and am looking forward to tomorrow's meetup. The RSVP has the meetup listed at 10am in one spot and 1pm in another. Would someone clarify which time is correct? Thanks!

    June 20, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      I believe that it's 10am at Temple Coffee.

      Looking at the "print ticket" data, it says...

      Cafe Discussion - Transgender and Intersex Issues
      Saturday, June 21,[masked]:00 AM
      Sacramento Politics and Philosophy Group

      Temple Coffee and Fine Tea
      2829 S street, Sacramento, CA 95816 [masked]
      We usually meet outside - Look for the sign on my laptop

      June 20, 2014

  • Keith

    I would so like to have been at this meeting. I've been around trans and intersexed people since I was a teen. I've found them to be the most in-touch with themselves on all levels. The post-op M2F I've never felt were men and don't ever refer to them that way and a friend here in Sac is F2M and such a great success that there is no way the man can be considered a woman. Hope this is a good session and that any discomforts around the topic are recognized to be the personal issues around one's own sexuality rather than any issue with the people who have evidently dealt with theirs.

    June 16, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      June 21st is still in the future. (At least, as of today it is. ;-)

      June 16, 2014

    • Keith

      On vacation do it will be in the past once I return. Sorry for the incorrect form of grammar.

      June 16, 2014

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