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The purpose of this group, and some suggestions for those seeking group ritual experience

Diane
DianeVera
Group Organizer
New York, NY
Post #: 266
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In this thread, Earl Buys posted the following off-topic response:

May we contact Azazel as a group. Maybe meet another place?

As we already discussed in detail at Thursday's meeting, this group (NYC Satanists, Luciferians, Dark Pagans, and LHP Occultists) will NOT do rituals because it is intended to be a very diverse group, welcoming of all (law-abiding) Satanist/"LHP" paradigms, whereas a group that does rituals needs to be more focused. This group (NYC Satanists, Luciferians, Dark Pagans, and LHP Occultists) is intended to be a group where we can all network and find congenial people. Eventually I hope that several different groups will emerge out of this group, devoted to different Satanist/"LHP" paradigms. My intent is for this group to evolve into the nucleus of a hopefully forthcoming community of Satanist/"LHP" groups, each with its own paradigm.

On the other hand, the Church of Azazel proto-congregation does intend to do rituals, but the Church of Azazel proto-congregation doesn't yet have enough people to make it worthwhile to rent space, and specifically we don't yet have enough people whom I would consider to be Church of Azazel stalwarts. My guesstimate is that we'll have enough people in maybe a year.

To those who have not yet had any experience doing group rituals and who are eager to gain such experience, my suggestion for now is to try the open circle at Enchantments. The open circle at Enchantments is NOT Satanist or LHP-oriented. However, the folks at Enchantments do seem to be at least a little bit more dark-friendly than most groups and public figures in the Pagan/occult community. Enchantments­ is located at 424 E 9th St. The store is closed on Tuesdays, if I recall correctly.

If what you are specifically looking for is a group that's into contacting spirits, you might want to try the Meetup group Seance in the City, although that group is pretty white-light as far as I can tell.

Anyhow, this group (NYC Satanists, Luciferians, Dark Pagans, and LHP Occultists) is intended to be a social and discussion group. And the topic of the thread in which you posted your comment was for people to suggest discussion topics for future meetings, especially for the extra meeting we'll be having in mid-November. If you wish to post about matters other than suggesting discussion topics for future meetings, please do so in a thread other than that one.

As for the "place" where we meet, please see the separate thread I've started on that topic too. Everyone, please talk about the venue in that thread rather than this one.

This current thread is for discussion about the purpose of this group, and suggestions for people who want group ritual experience ASAP.
Diane
DianeVera
Group Organizer
New York, NY
Post #: 269
Send an Email You are unable to greet this member
May we contact Azazel as a group

A more fundamental issue here:

If one is going to attempt to contact spirits, I personally would recommend being very picky about whom one does this sort of thing with. It is sooooo easy to deceive oneself on such matters. I personally would be interested in doing this sort of thing only with a group of people I have already gotten to know fairly well.

Hence, please do NOT be impatiently and repeatedly asking either this group (NYC Satanists, Luciferians, Dark Pagans, and LHP Occultists) or the Church of Azazel proto-congregation to hold meetings at which we try to contact spirits.

Most serious occultists have a similar attitude. In almost ANY serious occult group you might join in the future, you'll be expected to jump through a bunch of preliminary hoops before you're allowed to participate in the serious stuff. Try not to be impatient with those preliminary hoops. Relax, take your time, and get to know the people.

Earlier, I suggested "Seance in the City" for those people eager for a group experience in attempts to communicate with spirits. However, that's only a reluctant suggestion, for those people absolutely dying to get their feet wet with this type of group activity. Personally, I would suggest taking the goings-on at any public seance with a hefty dose of salt. (Google "seance skeptic" and "seance debunk" for some things to watch out for.)

A more wholehearted suggestion is to try the Pagan open circle at Enchantments. The open circle is unlikely to involve heavy-duty invocation/evocation. But, if you're patient, it may be a place to meet people with whom you can eventually do that sort of thing. And, in the meantime, it will give you some experience with the basics of occult group ritual practice.

I should also point out a few things about the Church of Azazel proto-congregation:

  • The Church of Azazel is not intended to be a hardcore occult group, and I myself am not a hardcore occultist. Occultism is only one aspect of what the Church of Azazel is about. (See our beliefs and principles.)

  • I do expect that the Church of Azazel paradigm will attract some serious occultists who are into Chaos Magic. (Indeed we already have one such person, whom I now regard as a Church of Azazel stalwart.) Also, although I don't consider myself to be a hardcore occultist, I do seem to have some talent for ritual arts. (In the past, I have written rituals that some serious occultists have deemed very useful.)

  • As I envision it, the Church of Azazel will eventually include five orders, one for each of the five rising gods (Lilith, Prometheus, Ishtar, Pan, and Lucifer-of-Sophia). Of the five, the Order of Lucifer-of-Sophia will be the one which focuses most strongly on occult matters.

  • Although this won't be the Church of Azazel's sole or main focus, one important thing the Church of Azazel proto-congregation is intended to do, in at least some of our rituals, will be to curse various religious right wing figures. To that end, we want people who hate them enough to curse them. And, to that end, we want people who also hate them enough to take at least some small actions to counteract them in the mundane political realm as well, and to learn about the various kinds of harm they are causing, both politically and spiritually. (This is one of the reasons for our requirement that prospective members of the Church of Azazel proto-congregation also attend meetings of New Yorkers Against Religion-Based Bigotry.)

  • The Church of Azazel's paradigm is based largely on observation of current religious and social trends. (Another, more basic reason for our requirement that prospective members of the Church of Azazel proto-congregation also attend meetings of NYARBB.)

Anyhow, it will be a while before the Church of Azazel proto-congregation gets around to doing much in the way of serious occult rituals as a group. You, personally, have already been told this repeatedly. Please do not breathe down our necks about it. If your sole interest is in attempts to communicate with spirits, and if you are going to be impatient with any and all preliminaries, then neither this group (NYC Satanists, Luciferians, Dark Pagans, and LHP Occultists) nor the Church of Azazel proto-congregation is the right group for you. Furthermore, you'll be very hard-pressed to find a serious occult group that is the right group for you.

On the other hand, if you are willing to take things easy, get to know us on other levels, and discuss other topics, then you are welcome to continue attending our meetings. Also, feel free to try out the rituals on my Theistic Satanism site on your own.
Diane
DianeVera
Group Organizer
New York, NY
Post #: 275
Send an Email You are unable to greet this member
A further suggestion to Earl Buys:

If you yourself would like to organize a group devoted singlemindedly to contacting spirits, feel free to post a new thread on this message board asking other interested people to contact you.

Perhaps you might even want to start your own Meetup group, in which case your group and this group could both benefit from mutual cross-promotion.

If you do decide to organize your own group, it would be nice if it could participate in the larger Satanist/LHP community that I aim to build.

P.S.: I must add, though: If you start a group devoted to contacting spirits, please be careful. Please be mindful of the possibilities for self-deception. Apply reality checks. Don't just automatically believe everything that happens to have been "channeled."
Diane
DianeVera
Group Organizer
New York, NY
Post #: 278
Send an Email You are unable to greet this member
P.S. to Earl:

Apologies for the tone of some of my posts. I was indeed a bit annoyed that you seemed to be re-asking questions that had already been discussed at our meeting, which seemed to me like a waste of time. However, your post has had the beneficial effect of livening up this message board, thereby helping to give this Meetup site a more "lived-in" look.

So, a belated thanks to both you and Drew for posting.
A former member
Post #: 4
No apology necessary, Diane.
I have found you forthcoming and helpful, I don't mind a little bile.
Further, I have followed every one of your suggestions for joing and visiting and hold my own counsel which I would be happy to share at one of our meetings.
My own bias is that contacting 'general spirits' is like asking a random in Times Square what they think about anything at all-who cares?
The eager to speak usually say little of substance and is precisely why I wish to invoke a particular force: even if a lying being, it remains one that at least knows that that it purports to be.
Thank you for shedding your dark light.
Have no fear of my letting any guard down.
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