Thanks for that one Theodore. A well thought out and sound response. The concept of "Veganscience" is all but ignored. It's tough for many people to live their lives, pay the bills, and then get out and start digging in the garden, let alone have the advanced knowledge of Veganscience required to do it right. I myself go for the organic fruits and veggies whenever I can, knowing that it's not perfect, but figuring it's light years ahead of eating the thoughtless American diet.

As far as advising other.... Yes, you cannot change someone who does not wish to be changed. And we should not chase after people to become vegan. That being said, we in the community, who have this knowledge about the food industry, etc., are the only ones who can help the plight of animals. Rutgers professor Gary Francione, http://www.abolitioni..., suggests that all of the corporate battles that animal rights groups attempt with meat and dairy industry result in nothing more than prolonged slaughter and higher profits. The best means of change is for us to educate our neighbors and loved ones. Each person who becomes vegan can save up to 3000 animals over a lifetime. It is also the single most effective thing anyone can do to prevent global warming... we all know the details on that one. If you don't, watch the movie "Eating." So short of wrestling someone down and stuffing vegetables in their mouth, we do what we can to gently educate.

So, where are we on the original question? It just happened again two nights ago. I heard the same thing. "But we can't just give up meat. You have to have a little meat. We only eat grass fed. Man is so accustomed to having meat in his diet. I tried it before and I had to go back to eating meat. I had two alternative doctors tell me that I had to put meat back in my diet." All I said at that point was, "Well here's the information, you can do the research yourself and make your own decisions." No more discussion with them on whether going back to eating meat is necessary for some people. "I believe" everyone can be weened off of meat and dairy... and should be. But, I could be wrong...... and in this situation.... I can't tell a person not to go with the advise of two alternative health professionals. Even though it flies in the face of my research. Thanks again Theodore. See you at the potluck.

Indeed it is tough to keep up both a job and a garden. I was able to do it for only about 6 years before economics forced me to spend more time on cash-generating activities and leave my garden behind that I loved so much. But I still dream about the food that came out of that garden, and how much better it tasted than any I had ever gotten anywhere else in the United States. To be fair, I must say that some of the produce I got from small family "truck" farms in Mexico was just as good. The secret is in the soil. As I said, to feed ourselves well, we must feed our green plants well. And to feed our green plants well, we must cultivate the soil well. Once you have been composting plant matter and adding it to the soil, one begins to be able to actually taste and smell that soil, when one eats the plants. Old-timers used to say that they could tell you if a plant was grown in cow manure or chicken manure, without ever seeing where the plants were grown. Good, plant-based compost has a wonderful aroma. Plants that I grew with different batches of plant-based compost, had a taste and aroma reminiscent of the batch they were grown in. I've also felt and smelled the awful, awful soil that much "conventional" produce is grown in. The texture is different. The aroma is different, and both the "organic" soil, and sometimes the "conventional" soil, often has an aroma reminiscent of pig feces, or chicken feces, even though the feces used has been "properly composted." Plant-based soil is a joy to run through your hands and put up to your nose. Most other soil that I've seen - is repellant.

From the flavor and aroma of the commercially grown organic produce sold by various "natural" chain supermarkets, it doesn't seem to me like the plants were grown in especially good soil. Recent studies regarding rotenone, which is approved for organic farms because this pesticide is a "natural plant product," have convinced me that many so-called chemical pesticides are actually less toxic to humans than rotenone. Rotenone, however, biodegrades faster in the soil than most chemcial pesticides - but not in lakes and streams. The choices here are just not simple. Nicotine is used on organic farms too, as a pesticide. There is mounting evidence that rotenone can cause Parkinson's disease. I've observed its effects on invertebrates living in my soil. Good soil is about 30% animal matter, maybe more, mostly beneficial nematodes. They are an essential part of the soil. http://www.personal.p... Their size is at the borderline between visible to the naked eye and microscopic. I've learned how to see them without a microscope. They are not single-celled, they are multicellular organisms - with a nervous system. And having sprayed rotenone on plants, I've seen the effect on nematodes, when the rotenone drips onto the soil. I'm not sure if they were killed by the rotenone, or merely suffered prolongued seizures, but it wasn't pretty to look at. While there is no way to garden without killing millions of tiny animals with nervous systems that live in the soil, I've decided that I prefer not to dose them with rotenone.