Vancouver Unconventional Books Message Board › The Bay of Pigs & Squeal of DEMONS

The Bay of Pigs & Squeal of DEMONS

Gerald
EyeRaLunar
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 93
A BIT ABOUT OPPOSITES & MADNESS:

left brain vs right brain/ rational vs irrational/sanity vs madness

Enjoying the opposites not only as themes but in the phrases:

administrative ardour, aesthetic in a military style VS hysterical haughtiness, hysterical pitch,hysterical impatience of her sex, hysterical outbreaks and sobbing, hysterical scene, hysterical sobshysterical remorse ...at night gloat[ing] in escatasies
Gerald
EyeRaLunar
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 94
COMBING THROUGH THE PAPER TRAILS (Zoom in - Zoom out)

ZOOM IN:
I wonder if anyone else feels the same way? --- that certain words jump out, enter the portals of your temples and implant themselves in your mind, then you start to notice them used again and again...patterns forming maybe? hmmm....sometimes it seems like these recurring words/phrases serve to expand an idea/theme, sometimes as siginifiers (reminds me of Oz), sometimes for aesthetics, sometimes for structural means.

Flunkeyism of thought => flunkey => footman

"Once when we were travelling a fellow slipped his hand into my pocket, took my brush, and began brushing his hair with it." (Shatov & Narrator, Part 1, Chp 4)==> "When did you comb your hair last? Let me do it for you." And she pulled a little comb out of her pocket. "I don't believe you've touched it since I combed it last."
"Well I haven't got a comb," said Shatov, laughing too. "Really? Then I'll give you mind; only remind me, not this one but another." With a most serious expression she set to work to comb his hair. She even parted it on one side; drew back a little, looked to see whether it was right and put the comb back in her pocket. (Shavtov and Marya, Part 1, Chp 4) ==> "...and never combed her hair, or washed, for seventeen years." (Marya describes Lizaveta the Blessed, Part 1, Chp 4)

ZOOM OUT:
Truth presented, then flipped inside out and revealed as lie? Everything questioned?

"It is some sort of an allegory in lyrical-dramatic form, recalling the second part of Faust." (Introductory, Chp 1)
"What allegory is this?" (Part 1, Chp 4)
"Allegory, indeed!" (Part 1, Chp 4)
"All that is nonsensical allegory..." (Part 1, Chp 5)
" I simply did not believe in this publication..." (Part 1, Chp 4)



Regi M.
Regwords
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 37
Ok now you're caught up...kind of.
I love your stuff. Really-you are a fine and challenging reader/thinker. Love it. Thanks
Gerald
EyeRaLunar
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 95
THE SOUNDSCAPE IN DEMONS:

What is the music in Demons? I had wondered, and as I hear from Regi and from catching up with the reading, yes, there are musical allusions in the novel. But I don't mean that when I asked that question to myself.

What is the hum beneath the words, between the words, in the words?--- in other words, the soundscape in Demons.

Human Voices, acapella style [and I don't mean in the style of the church! Though, hmmm, there is a religious tone in some of the music]. And then there is vocalise: nonsensical sounds, babbles, hisses, cries and screams, whines and whimpers. Oh and the whispers and the talks, and this soundscape is covered in a fog of rumours (in the latter part of this sentence , nod to James here, I paraphrase, think you said "cloud of rumours" ). Oh and yes, and the tonal style of the voices too! -- here I recall James pointing out the paragraph describing the way some character talked (was it the general, J?). And and the pitch of Demons? Why hysterical of course! LOL!
Gerald
EyeRaLunar
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 96
OBSESSIONS

Jun mentioned obsessions last. I think it was along the lines of having to fill the nothingness with something?
(Made me think of Boredom & obssessions -- here, nod to Penelope in Cabal :) )
And this made me think of Kirilov's obsession with suicide and death. And this made me think about it's dialectical antithesis-- Life....and how we are biologically primed to obsess to live. And this made me think of the other characters and their obsessions.
Regi M.
Regwords
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 38
I'm on your wavelength...I'm thinking of each character and the way in which each one is presented as obsessed-or as having one main idea,book,poem,-ism-
I'll keep working on it too...
and so goodnight little grasshopper-
Jun Bae S.
user 95933042
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 1
From this novel and my experience, I realize that a human being might be supposed to suffer from social and existential nothingness, which is a human bondage. While social- and existential nothingness are separate, they are not easily separated and often confused. Paradoxically, what makes life nothingness is also to make life beautiful. - Suppose we live forever. Then this foreverness makes us miserable somehow. - We have our own dream, or dream of dream, because we could be something when we dream.

- I guess, in the book, Lebyatkin shows social nothingness. He tried to forget his nothingness with drinking. His nothingness makes him abuse his sister. When he abuses his sister, he could be something powerful. Abuse might often occur in close relationship. He might be addicted to abuse.

This book reminds us often of Albert Camus (and his philosophy) who mentioned Kirilov in his book. But, I would like to recommend you to take a look at Viktor Frankl, who invents logotheraphy, http://en.wikipedia.o...­.
Regi M.
Regwords
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 39
Penetrating and insightful, Jun! I have much to say-I'm working on it. More later.
Gerald
EyeRaLunar
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 97
From this novel and my experience, I realize that a human being might be supposed to suffer from social and existential nothingness, which is a human bondage. While social- and existential nothingness are separate, they are not easily separated and often confused. Paradoxically, what makes life nothingness is also to make life beautiful. - Suppose we live forever. Then this foreverness makes us miserable somehow. - We have our own dream, or dream of dream, because we could be something when we dream.

- I guess, in the book, Lebyatkin shows social nothingness. He tried to forget his nothingness with drinking. His nothingness makes him abuse his sister. When he abuses his sister, he could be something powerful. Abuse might often occur in close relationship. He might be addicted to abuse.

This book reminds us often of Albert Camus (and his philosophy) who mentioned Kirilov in his book. But, I would like to recommend you to take a look at Viktor Frankl, who invents logotheraphy, http://en.wikipedia.o...­.
Thanks for sharing, Jun smile I'll look at this link tonight.
So there is Nothingness and its dialectical antithesis [sorry one of my current fave phrases -- courtesy Walter Benji] would be----Somethingness? (Makes me think of actual Space, makes me think of Photography/Visual Art : Positive and Negative Spaces.) Ok this is making me think of that whole Creation Biz --- making something out of nothing at all (oh Air Supply -- Making love out of nothing at all), and then the God Particle...hmmm

I wonder about how separate social nothingness is from existential nothingness. I use to think so. I tried to separate the 2 for a long time, but more recently I think that it seems that it ain't necessarily so...at least my own journey in this life. Just reminds me of the heart-mind-body dilemma in Murphy.
So far this is what I feel : ME<=>WE . I can't quantify the proportions of the 2, I think this then is an individual case thing, and perhaps the proportions are always in flux. (I think in Theoretical Physic, there is no such thing as non-motion?I think those guys don't believe in Nothingness either...uh-oh, I better shaddup about this now cos know nuthin' about Theoretical Physics!! tongue )
Jun Bae S.
user 95933042
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 2
No Dostoevsky's book in Oprah's list.

I happen to find no Dostoevsky's book in Oprah Winfrey's list of books, while there are Dickens', Tolstoy and Steinbeck. One might say, it could be Oprah's personal preference. However, when main characters of Dostoevsky's books are recalled, it can be observed that each main character in his book asks theological and philosophical questions. In particular, in this novel, we can see that Stavrogin has no life and no emotional attachment to anything.
We could have life, if we are emotionally attached to something. - Stavrogin does not even show emotional relationship to his mother-

Before we find answers to some philosophical questions regarding to existence and God, we have to get through our own daily life, such as job, love, care, jealousy, parent, drug, abuse, divorce, orphan, even dystopia (from books of Oprah's list). In getting through all these things, we are naturally attached to these with our emotion and reason.
I might not be able to answer to my philosophical question regarding to existence. I found nothing rationally explained. But, if I add up all things I have been through - in dealing with these things, ironically I might look for God - , that sum could show my (empirical) existence. I think that many books in Oprah's list tell those stories, which is life.

I think I talk too much biggrin
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