Vancouver Unconventional Books Message Board › The Bay of Pigs & Squeal of DEMONS

The Bay of Pigs & Squeal of DEMONS

Regi M.
Regwords
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 40
What did I miss? Why Oprah's list?
You have certainly given me much to think about. No. You do NOT talk too much. More! More!

I read the Frankl. Yes. I learn much from him. Those who have been through much have much to teach.
I twigged on your "a human bondage...".
Speaking of Somerset Maugham-brilliant. This link connects to a thought-provoking outline which leads us right to our Dostoevskyty.http://www.us.penguin...­
And at the bottom of the page: Should we read Dreiser? or Sons and Lovers?
Jun Bae S.
user 95933042
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 3
Thank Regi for the link.

As for Oprah's list, I just wondered why there is no Dostoevsky's book in her list. Main themes of Dostoevsky's books seem quite philosophical and psychologically insightful, which can be applied to our time. But, I think that the questions that Dostoevsky explored seem experimental. Our life, however, is an experiment (or journey) itself, which we can't do it again. We often wanted, but we have to move on. Books in Oprah's list show those experiments, which someone else might share with.

The post of mentioning Oprah's list is off the topic of 'Demons'. I just would like to share what I happened to realize. biggrin

Returning to this book, I think that by Stavrogin, Dostoevsky seems tried to make a human being above good and evil (as he did in other novels.)
Due to conscience and empathic capability of human being, we are not free from doing anything. I think that Dostoevsky often implies, because of God, we can not do that. In other words, without God, we could do anything.
- Ironically, throughout human history, we did irrespective of such arguments.-

In his novels, making a human being free from good and evil leads to make his heroes socio-path. His heroes finally couldn't be free, but just lost empathic capability and isolated from his society. When a human being recovers such empathy (returning to God?), guilty conscience and remorse are enormous, which is hard to bear. The last chapter of this book, At Tikhon's, shows one another variant of this pattern.
A former member
Post #: 98
Jun: enjoying your voice. smile off topic? -- oh, I think that makes life interesting...widens one's perspective. biggrin
Agree with Regi: more, more, more...we learn from one another.

Freedom...hmm, that for me is a loaded word...freedom can be, at times, stifling, I think.
Regi M.
Regwords
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 41
­In his novels, making a human being free from good and evil leads to make his heroes socio-path. His heroes finally couldn't be free, but just lost empathic capability and isolated from his society. When a human being recovers such empathy (returning to God?), guilty conscience and remorse are enormous, which is hard to bear. The last chapter of this book, At Tikhon's, shows one another variant of this pattern.

(Thanks Jun)

Now your comments here are applicable both to The Picture of Dorian Gray and to Of Human Bondage.
And,since it is Franz Kafka's 130th birthday,let us not forget the lessons taught(?) by Metamorphosis. (The META is for Ee Lyn,who claims to fear theoretical physics).

Interesting...how amazed Kafka,Wilde,and Dostoevsky might be to realize that after all their suffering and peregrinations,they will live to be several hundred years old.
A former member
Post #: 99
What did I miss? Why Oprah's list?
You have certainly given me much to think about. No. You do NOT talk too much. More! More!

I read the Frankl. Yes. I learn much from him. Those who have been through much have much to teach.
I twigged on your "a human bondage...".
Speaking of Somerset Maugham-brilliant. This link connects to a thought-provoking outline which leads us right to our Dostoevskyty.http://www.us.penguin...­
And at the bottom of the page: Should we read Dreiser? or Sons and Lovers?
Just read the outline of S[&]M's Of Human Bondage, thanks Regi!--- definitely see the //s to D's Demons. Sometimes I think, "Baa baa Blind Sheep," and sometimes I add, "oh but happy Sheep!" And now I add, "better than being possessed pigs running off the cliff!" Speaking of which we haven't discussed the biblical quote/epigram.

Now as for Meta, Matter and Anti-matter--- there's some interesting stuff in all that...ah theoretical physics!--- so much to learn, damm mortality...anyone know a vampire? bite me! devilish
Jun Bae S.
user 95933042
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 4
I might have nothing to say tomorrow biggrin, since I already wrote most of what I thought. Dostoevsky quotes Luke 8:32-36. But, the episode begins at 27 (Luke 8) as,

27: He was stepping ashore when a man from the city who was possessed by devils came towards him; for a long time the man had been living with no clothes on, not in a house, but in the tombs.

28: Catching sight of Jesus he gave a shout, fell at his feet and cried out at the top of his voice, 'What do you want with me, Jesus, son of the Most High God? I implore you, do not torture me.'

The chapter, At Tikhon's, is Stavrogin's confession. Stavrogin came to confess in hoping that he could be forgiven (according to Roman catholic and Russian or other orthodox). By repenting he would be healed. He might have lived in a hell before came in. Can we regard Stavrogin as a man in the above who came to see Jesus? Peter Verkhovensky and his followers might be also regarded as swines.

Nietzsche wrote about his superman, "Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Superman--a rope over an abyss". Does the man in this quote look like Stavrogin or Kilirov (Raskolnikov or Ivan Karamazov) ? What happens to them is that the rope is finally tore apart.

I think that in his novels, he often contrasts his heros' extreme negation on God with God's silent agape love. Such extreme negation makes his heroes falling stars which lose their orbit.

While reading this novel, at the back of my mind, I feel like that Dostoevsky put me at the end of Europe and Russia.
It seems like that something (disastrous) would be about to happen or might have happened in Russia. Some quotes from Revelation at the last chapter of this novel seems to be a final touch on such apocalyptic mood.

Regi M.
Regwords
Vancouver, BC
Post #: 42
Brilliant. So much to think about. You better be ready to reveal more tonight.
You are really helping guide my thoughts.
Powered by mvnForum

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy