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Re: [9-11-290] Invisible Empire

From: Daniel L.
Sent on: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 4:53 PM
Certainly there are multiple issues.? (The only religious attitude I see comes from the deniers, however.)

Back in 1958, there were *very* few people who spoke up about the possibilities.? In the 70s, when climate science was still fairly uncertain, a few thought the increasing pollution might lead to an ice age, but most gravitated to the warming side as the science became more and more clear that the warming will dominate.?? Media exaggerated what the science was telling us and gave us just the ice age story.? , So it is unfair to suggest this is some recurring fad.

Cap and trade, being one mechanism to try to reign in our CO2 production, is problematic, I would agree, and probably easier to abuse than the alternatives of taxation and regulation.?

Somehow we need to reduce our ecological footprint to sustainable levels.? I don't believe this requires that we revert to an agrarian civilization, but the longer we delay action, the fewer choices will be have, with increasingly severe consequences.?

There are realistic plans for how we can convert over all energy use to 100% renewable, while reducing poverty, hunger, disease, etc.? But the longer we wait, the harder it gets.

I strongly disagree that "The real answer is fewer people".? I've written a lot about that subject.? See http://globalconsensus.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/world-population-is-stabilizing/

It may very well be that the elite, feeling they are better than the rest of us, believe that population is the problem - but they are very wrong about that.???

And regardless, no matter what people believe, that is no excuse whatsoever for us to deny reality.? You have to really examine whether you are just believing what someone else has said, someone you would like to trust, or if you have checked it out yourself, looked at the challenging ideas, tested whether it makes sense.?

If you don't really know something, and pretend you do, then you are part of the problem.

Arguing against the science of how mankind is affecting the planet doesn't help anyone (except the status quo).? Exaggerations either way only cause confusion, and delay proper action.

It is NOT about just believing scientists either, since we can see that the alternatives are just so much nonsense.??? Properly done science argues against all opinions until what remains are the facts.

We should be doing this regarding 9/11 as well as all the rest.?

dan


On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Lasthorseman <[address removed]> wrote:

May we seperate the multiple issues under the collective religion of CO2.

Cap and trade and imminent enviornmental disaster goes back to the year 1958 making it appear less imminent and more like a generationally recycled fashion fad of ponzi scams
What will cause more destruction peak oil, peak resources, all of the above or all of the above plus wars over all of the above.

Are we ready or is it even a remote possibility to live as the Amish people do.? No but the global scene will take care of that for us.? The real answer is fewer people.? You can Google Superfriends+Eugenics to see how our illustrious leaders plan on keeping themselves at the top of the food chain.

The net result I have personally about big Al's climate religion scam?is to go reactionary anti-green on all fronts which is totally against my nature.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel LaLiberte" <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20,[masked]:57:22 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [9-11-290] Invisible Empire

No one is ignoring the sun when they consider global warming.? Anyone claiming such a thing is spouting nonsense.? Of course the sun is the main source of most of the energy that impacts the surface of the? earth and the atmosphere, the other source being geothermal energy.? Everyone knows that.? The greenhouse effect is caused by the sun's light entering the atmosphere, being absorbed and radiated back as longer-frequency infrared that tends to build up rather than escape into space.

Of course carbon is the dominant element of life on earth, other than hydrogen and oxygen (we are made of mostly water).? The issue is not about taxing it to control it.? Yes plants need carbon dioxide, but there is only a certain amount of plants that can absorb it.? The *excess* carbon dioxide that our industrialization has added to the atmosphere stays there a *long* time, and along with other greenhouse gases, it is clearly causing a gradual warming (yes, it is abundantly clear, and yes, almost all climate scientists agree, and the only disagreements are fine points).? The science is clear.?

What is also clear is that almost everyone who challenges global warming is spouting nonsense, not science.? Sometimes there are explicit lies, sometimes possibly legitimate misunderstandings.?? The nonsense is often clear enough that non-scientists can understand why it is nonsense.? For example, Monckton argues that we have had a global cooling in the last 10 years, but there are several problems with his argument.? The main problem is that this is a short term projection (10 years is not long enough to be statistically significant, given the amount of year-to-year variance).? Elsewhere he argues that you can't make short-term projections, but then why is he allowed to do so??

No one is being suppressed for being scientifically skeptical regarding any of the global warming issues.? There are a few cases where people pretend that is happening.?? There are cases where really bad non-science has been rejected, because it deserves to be.? In fact, there is a clear record of active suppression of the legitimate climate science by the US government under Bush. (see Censoring Science: Inside the political attack on Dr. James Hansen and the truth of global warming)

There is indeed a conspiracy concerning global warming, but it is a conspiracy of the fossil fuel power companies, supported very well by the Bush administration, who have twisted facts and hidden the truth. ? There is a clear record of stories in the main stream media pretending that there is a legitimate controversy, giving equal weight to the deniers, when the arguments are hardly equal.

Indeed, don't believe me either.? Do your research!?? I've done plenty, but I doubt you really have.

Here is one of my favorite Crock of the Week videos: Birth of a Crock, showing how a scientist's statement is misrepresented by deniers.? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khikoh3sJg8

dan

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:04 PM, eric cross <[address removed]> wrote:
Hi Daniel, You might want to watch this documentary series about the global warming crisis?
Carbon is the most common and dominant element for life on this planet. Wouldn't it be great if we could just figure out a way to tax and control it!!! To say there are no facts to back this up is like running a marathon backwards. All the information at the very least shows that manmade global warming is far from exact and any scientfic method would lead to different conclusions. The fact is that those that are not in line with this global governance of carbon are cast aside, persecuted, or ignored. The simple fact that the number one factor in climatology, the SUN, is completely disregarded from the Inconvient Lie, shows the invalidity of these supposed studies!!!! Don't believe me, do your research!
Peace



From: Daniel LaLiberte <[address removed]>

To: [address removed]
Sent: Sat, April 17,[masked]:50:10 PM
Subject: Re: [9-11-290] Invisible Empire

The video is well done, except for the global warming denial crap.? Deniers have no facts on their side - they have the equivalent of the 9/11 official conspiracy story coverup.? Check out the blog I have been helping with: http://climatecrocks.com/?

Thanks to Janet and others on this list for activating my involvement in fighting global warming denial.

dan

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Dan <[address removed]> wrote:
A great documentary! i found myself with my mouth agape in shock quite a few times!!! very informative i will pass it ?along!!!!

--- On Fri, 4/16/10, Janet Holmes <[address removed]> wrote:

From: Janet Holmes <[address removed]>
Subject: RE: [9-11-290] Invisible Empire

To: [address removed]
Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 5:23 PM


Great documentary! I feel very comfortable sending it around. Thanks! Janet


From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Lasthorseman
Sent: Friday, April 16,[masked]:30 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: [9-11-290] Invisible Empire

Just finished the entire thing.? Best ever from Jason.

http://www.informationliberation.com/





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