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Re: [londroid] Depart for Android Beta Release

From: Ryan K.
Sent on: Thursday, May 9, 2013 8:46 AM
Thanks Kenton, some great feedback. Really appreciate the time you've taken.

1) Will definitely checkout DragSortListView, great to hear you experience with this.

2) Your spot on, 1st use experience needs improvement, and fast. Some great ideas, not sure it will be as slick as Hailo in the next few iterations, but I will be focussing on making this a much more pleasant, and crucially useful experience.

3) Great points. I'm thinking along these lines already, but they didn't make the cut for the beta. The reason for the popup is to show the kind of things you mention, alerts if there are problems at the selected stop, summary of next bus / tube before you pull up, line status etc. But I went with minimum features for 1.x release, as I'm looking to add exactly this kind of feedback into my thinking as the app evolves. 

4) Yep, agree it's not quite right. I originally planned the app to be all gestured based, so edge swipes to get about. But learnt to late this wasn't intuitive / reliable enough to go with. So if I'm honest the tabs got added late, and need to review the best option going forward. 

5) They're TFL bus stop labels. I'm hoping the power user recognises them ;-) They're generally used in hives like you mention, but are important in London as you'll often know you're looking for bus stop 'X' in a location. But you're not the first to ask, so maybe something I can make clearer / more useful.

Thanks again, useful stuff. 

Ryan


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Kenton Price <[address removed]> wrote:
For organising and reordering and deleting items in a list, we've been
round the houses and back with an imminent new app I'm writing for the
BBC, and we finally used the same thing used by Ronan Nurik's
DashClock, which is a library called DragSortListView. This works
really well, and plays well in user testing. We could have used
swipe-to-delete, but since that interfered with closing the fly-in
menu, we've done it a different way. I disagree with the
long-press-to-reorder suggestion - this was common pre-4.0, but in
4.0+ it's used for selection - usually multi-selection. In user
testing, done by grabbing random members of the public touring
Broadcasting House that had Android phones, we found practically all
of them expected to be able to long-press to mark one or more items
for deletion. We made this discovery very late, too late for v1, but I
expect it will be in v2.

Whilst sitting on the plane at Heathrow and awaiting instructions to
turn off my phone, I downloaded and had a quick play with your app.
The first-experience is so critical - that first ten seconds. It
waited a few seconds, then showed me a list of stops at Liverpool
Street Station. Why, when I was at Heathrow, and it had clearly taken
a few seconds to think about it? Or is it always meant to start
initially at Liverpool Street? While it's getting stop data, you could
cycle through the location providers to find the most recent last
reading and/or the most accurate last reading, and then order the
stops by distance from that. Or ask for a full location hit - you'd
get *something* back pretty quick.

But that first use, I was expecting something like Hailo, where I
don't touch a thing and it's immediately obvious what's going on -
perhaps a bit unfair, as I think Hailo has the best first-use
experience of any app I've seen in the past year. In your app, I found
I needed to touch the screen about three times before I got any useful
info. This wasn't what I was expecting. You're right that there's a
case to be had to show great travel information nearby - indeed,
Google Now works a treat for this in San Francisco, picking your
closest stops and showing you the next buses. You can get this
information by swiping your finger up from the bottom of any screen -
and nothing more. That's what you're competing with - or you can bet
your last quid you're just about to be competing with. And whilst I
assume you offer more than this with favourites and stuff, I don't see
this base-case simplicity here?

You touch a stop, it shows you the buses that stop there. And you get
a popup at the bottom of the screen that shows the stop. Why doesn't
it show what it knows at this point? Next to each bus number in the
pin popup, and/or in the bottom-of-screen popup, you could have a
summary number of minutes to the next bus. If this is for the power
user, they'll know where the bus goes. If not, they'll touch it and
get that info. Perhaps you could add an asterisk or something if the
bus stops short of its usual destination, to alert the power user that
they need to open the full screen to get full info.

I don't like using the viewpager here, since as Gonçalo said it breaks
the map panning. Since you only have three options, why not have a
tabbed navigation in the action bar? You could do it with icons if you
don't have space to write them all out. It seems like a good case for
a split action bar so you could fit it all in as text, but that might
not look great given the way you popup the stop details at the bottom.

What do the letters on the bus stops mean? At first I thought it was
"E", "W", "N", "S", but then I found 1, 2, D, P, J. If it does relate
to direction, perhaps you could add arrows to indicate their
direction? Or if there's some other rhyme or reason, colour code them?
If these are TFL bus stop codes, and EWNS are used when they're not
part of a massive hive of nearby bus stops, you could still
directionalise EWNS, and perhaps colour them differently from the hive
ones too.

Great potential though - keep us updated :-)

On 2 May[masked]:39, Ryan Kelly <[address removed]> wrote:
> Nice idea, I'd love to add that functionality when time permits. Also swipe
> off the screen to delete like Google Now would be nice.
>
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Gonçalo Silva <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>> For organizing favourites, drag (with long press) and drop could work
>> well.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Gonçalo Silva
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Ryan Kelly <[address removed]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Having a map on a view pager breaks the swiping UX
>>>
>>> Yeah, I struggled with this one. I added edge swipe to attempt to solve
>>> it, but not sure how well adopted that is yet. Making it the first in the
>>> list would help.
>>>
>>> > at least a fade at the bottom to give it a nice polish
>>>
>>> Agreed, it's not quite right yet. Need to get better at design!
>>>
>>> > How do you organize favourites?
>>>
>>> Embarrassed to say they're not sorted. Well they're in the order you
>>> create them. I will provide sorting options, such as by distance and
>>> alphabetical. But nice idea if they could be tagged, such as home and work
>>> and sorted.
>>>
>>> >  I want to see favourites, and see the timetable as fast as possible.
>>> > Currently favourites takes you to the map, then you have to bring up the
>>> > stop timetable...
>>>
>>> Completely agree, it's targeted at the everyday user so this needs
>>> fixing. This combined with Marcello's suggestion or a little map icon on the
>>> card seems to make most sense at the moment.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the comments, really useful.
>>>
>>> ps your added to the list :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Gonçalo Silva <[address removed]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey, Nice app
>>>>
>>>> A few comments
>>>>
>>>> Having a map on a view pager breaks the swiping UX - If you want to keep
>>>> it in a view pager I'd move it either to the start or end of the view pager
>>>> The cards UI looks good but could do with an improvement - at least a
>>>> fade at the bottom to give it a nice polish
>>>> How do you organize favourites? not sure you can at the moment... I
>>>> normally sort them in order of transport: home - work - home
>>>> Also, It feels a bit broken for everyday users. I rarely find new stops
>>>> or need to know whats around me - I want to see favourites, and see the
>>>> timetable as fast as possible. Currently favourites takes you to the map,
>>>> then you have to bring up the stop timetable...
>>>>
>>>> Looking good overall :)
>>>>
>>>> P.s. Add me to the list of updates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 10:23 AM, David Guerrero <[address removed]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Ryan. I believe that user experience is a must in any kind of
>>>>> apps, even in a bus app.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other feature that I think is pretty cool is the ability to search in
>>>>> the map for any route between two points of the city, just tapping those
>>>>> points on the map or entering an address, etc.  That's quite useful if you
>>>>> don't know very well the city.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2 May[masked]:03, Ryan Kelly <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice apps David. Love the big targets on the home screen, and street
>>>>>> maps is a nice touch. Too many travel apps insist on small text / buttons
>>>>>> that are hard to hit when walking down the street.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:57 AM, David Guerrero <[address removed]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll have a look as well as I'm interested on this kind of apps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have developed a couple of these for two Spanish cities, Bilbao
>>>>>>> and Madrid.
>>>>>>> You can have a look and if you guys like any experiences or
>>>>>>> suggestions are very welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quoders.apps.BilbaoBus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quoders.apps.MadridBus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> David.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2 May[masked]:36, Andrew Black <[address removed]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Likewise -  There seem to be a lot of these bus apps around and some
>>>>>>>> seem a bit fiddly. They take so many clicks to get the right result that you
>>>>>>>> miss the bus staring into your phone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would be interested to see if yours is easier to use. dont want to
>>>>>>>> try it in a hurry  - when I have some spare time it will give it a fairer
>>>>>>>> evaluation,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2 May[masked]:39, Paolo Montalto <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll try it when I'm back in London (couple of weeks)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take a look at BusDroid London:
>>>>>>>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.xabaras.android.busdroid.london
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> has not as many features as yours but is simple and straightforward
>>>>>>>>> if you are at a bus stop w/o display and you want to know what bus is due.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paolo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Il giorno 02/mag/[masked]:21, "Ryan Kelly" <[address removed]>
>>>>>>>>> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Hi All,
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Hope it's OK to post here, I'm looking for beta testers for my
>>>>>>>>> > new London departure board app.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > If you've missed a bus recently, this one's for you.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > You can get the beta from my Drive at:-
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-Kd2QGlp7fjUWQ4VlhxaVN2Uk0/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>>>> > (4.0 or greater required)
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > If you're interested please post me your email address so I can
>>>>>>>>> > add you to the list to inform of updates.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Ryan
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > --
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>>>>>>>>> > To learn more about Ryan Kelly, visit his/her member profile
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>>>>>>>>> > Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> [address removed]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> [address removed]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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