Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows

From: Ellie
Sent on: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 12:27 PM
Yes, Gia, I got it!  I actually had a dream a while ago that I was away from my house and someone told me that MV was watching my dogs until I got home.  Of course, I was unable to get to my house.  I was so thankful to wake up and find them all cuddled around me.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gia Campola <[address removed]>
To: animalrights-190 <[address removed]>
Sent: Tue, Jun 5,[masked]:18 pm
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows

Amen, Ellie!  (hee hee - little joke there between you and -me, get it?)

Gia

--- On Mon, 6/4/12, Ellie <[address removed]> wrote:

From: Ellie <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
To: [address removed]
Date: Monday, June 4, 2012, 11:33 AM

Whether he is truely repentent, or not, I wouldn't allow him to watch MY dogs...


-----Original Message-----
From: Gia Campola <[address removed]>
To: animalrights-190 <[address removed]>
Sent: Sun, Jun 3,[masked]:26 pm
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows

Hi Jack - yes I certainly do understand your point and, as a great man said, .."an eye for an eye would leave the whole world blind" (not verbatim)  I just worry about the fascination and obsession people have with "celebrities" and their unthinking way of following them.  I ponder how many are truly aware that he ,if he has indeed, has reformed or that they are simply siding with him because of the media and the fact that he is an athlete and celebrity.  Are their motives for forgiveness motivated correctly, and what lesson are they REALLY gaining from this - let's hope it's the one WE would all want them to learn, but I am not sure.  And, I do agree that none of us are infallible,but, do we make the same mistake over and over for an unknown amount of time and at the cost of such torture and abuse? I don't think ANY of us have made those mistakes.  I do respect your opinion, Jack, of course, and know that you are hoping to see the good, and hoping that we are all capable of reform.  Thanks and peace, Gia

Gia

--- On Sun, 6/3/12, Jack McMillan <[address removed]> wrote:

From: Jack McMillan <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
To: [address removed]
Date: Sunday, June 3, 2012, 3:44 PM

 
All the verbal venom against MV and the award is, to me, counter-productive. As long as he never does this again, i don't care if he is the devil incarnated. If he has reformed his actions and is speaking out to millions with the right message, regardless whether he rises to the "sincerity" standard (who can divine another's heart?) of many in the movement, he is doing good... now...    Sandie's words here are right on...and do watch the short vid.

“People must have renounced, it seems to me, all natural intelligence to dare to advance that animals are but animated machines….It appears to me, besides, that [such people] can never have observed with attention the character of animals, not to have distinguished among them the different voices of need, of suffering, of joy, of pain, of love, of anger, and of all their affections.  It would be very strange that they should express so well what they could not feel.”
- Voltaire, Trate sur la tolerance
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 03,[masked]:45 PM
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows

I trust that when people say they are truly sorry for what they have done, that they mean just that. If others suspect that it is only a ploy and another game for 'them', an athlete or anyone else, to win over an audience, that is not for me to judge them.  We all have our own interpretations and our skepticism for however we were raised and for whatever our belief systems are at this time in our lives to lead us to our own choices and decisions. One of our very strongest animal rights activist was a Vivisectionist as her research career. She saw a PETA video and overnight, she became a vegan.  Should we hate her and not let her be active in our community? Or should be appreciate her for educating herself and for educating others?  All of the while she was earning a living and for all of the animals she experimented on and killed, was that all a mistake on her part? She went to that company and was hired to do research on animals deliberately. Wasn't that a conscious decision?  I applaud her for turning her life around and influencing so many people today.  I appreciate everyone's point of view for what they are expressing and how they feel about it. If Michael Vick came to Cleveland and asked to speak on behalf of the animals and especially pit bulls, would you turn him away?  I thought this 2.22 minute U-Tube was of interest. Maybe you will too.
http://youtu.be/KN4kRAEo-iE



From: Mark R. Orel <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sun, June 3,[masked]:49:57 AM
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows

Gia: 

Early on in my youth before my involvement in animal
rights, yes I saw nothing wrong with cock fighting and
bull fighting.  I was fascinated with piranha and Boa
constrictors, I'm sure you understand how they feed. 
Dog fighting was not something I was exposed to, so
I cannot say how I would have felt about it at that time. 

My point is that my empathy was directed more toward the
people around me and less toward the animals.  I have
been very lucky in that I've had many experiences that have
given me a greater understanding of myself and my
nature.  This I believe has also given me a greater
understanding of human nature. 

People can and do change in what we empathize with
and though more difficult, ones nature can also change,
in both directions.  


M. Orel



On[masked]:07, Gia Campola wrote:
Hi Mark - thanks for your comments, and for caring.  I have heard that Vick made a mistake from caring, intelligent people such as yourself.  Yes, we ALL make mistakes - some very grievous - some we are ashamed of - some life changing.  Would YOU, or any truly compassionate person you know, EVER make the "mistake" Vick made - many times before being caught?  I think I can safely assume that you - or any of this email's recipients - would never, never  make the "mistake" Vick did - and do it more than once.  I don't think ANY of us would make this "mistake" - regardless of our "upbringing", "educations", "backgrounds", etc. Thanks and peace.

Gia

--- On Sat, 6/2/12, Mark R. Orel <[address removed]> wrote:

From: Mark R. Orel <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
To: [address removed]
Date: Saturday, June 2, 2012, 12:11 PM

What Michael Vick did, can be considered a mistake,
if he now believes he was wrong at the time.  This is
something that only he can know. 

For me humans are flawed creatures we are both demon
and angle.  We have the capacity for great compassion and
fantastic cruelty.  As one of these flawed creatures I prefer
to believe in second chances.  I prefer to believe in rehabilitation,
as apposed to prison warehousing. 

Please understand that good people can do great harm under
the right circumstance.  And the right circumstance can be as
simple as who's with you at what moment.  Remember the Stanford
Prison Experiment? 
    - http://www.experiment-resources.com/stanford-prison-experiment.html

Everyone screws up at one time or another.  What makes one
person better than the other is how well we fix it.  

Why do good people do bad things?
Why do bad things happen to good people?



M. Orel



On[masked]:16, Michelle R wrote:
Dear All,
 
Really? What Michael Vick did was a mistake? Really.
 
A mistake is an absence of thought, not a deliberate thought-out action, an enterprise.
 
He did it because he lacks a conscience. He lacks empathy. He lacks compassion.
 
Michael Vick played the game. He played the game to get a lesser sentence, he played the game to get back in the game, Football. To make money.
 
He didn't "Dog-fight" to make money.
 
Wanna get religious? Do demons have empathy? Do demons have compassion? What constitutes a soul? Are demons sadistic? Can humans lack a soul? What qualities emcompass a soul? Can a human be born without a soul?
 
Like all evil people, he played the game of good (and was instructed & advised as to do it) to get what he wanted.
 
Now, the Real Question is: Do we as a society merge ethics with professional performance?
 
How is that gauged in terms of severity?
 
I think Michael Vick lacks a soul. Duh. He lacks empathy and compassion. WOW. It probably applies to almost everyone you meet. Well, don't be surprised.
 
We are in a spiritual battle here on this planet. Especially now. The planet is dying.
 
A Hero? WTF?!!! Pete Rose was banned from the Baseball Hall of Fame for gambling!!!! Even though his professional performance was separate from the gambling. BS. And we're gonna honor a morally bankrupt, sadistic "person" that no one wouldn't even around their dog/pet?
 
Really? Think. What is a mistake? And, what is sadistic? Sadism, deriving pleasure from others pain, is in the DSM model of psychological disorders. So is being Sociopathic, lack of care for others.
 
He is Sick. Sick in the head, heart and soul. Is he human, demon; does he have a soul?
 
Think about it. We all make mistakes. Do you plan your mistakes? Do you derive pleasure from you mistakes?
 
Really...............
 
Michelle R.
 
 
 
 
From: Angela Christopher <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Thursday, May 31,[masked]:00 PM
Subject: Re: [animalrights-190] Michale Vick Honor and upcoming television shows
dear valerie,

i respect your idealism, however, vick didn't make a mistake.
a mistake is dropping a bag of soil at home depot. a mistake is a typo. a mistake is trusting someone who doesn't deserve it.
a mistake is putting the wrong amount of postage on an envelope.

brute cruelty without empathy is psychosis. this is incurable. it is not a mistake. it was a deliberate choice, made by a person who enjoyed physically torturing defenseless beings, and who also did it for profit; a wealthy person who engaged in cruelty
for profit in addition to pleasure. he isn't the peasant who had to kill a chicken to feed his starving family.

to address a couple of your questions:  "Has he made an impact on at least 1 person to walk away from the dog fighting?  Yes"
nope. but i am sure he is responsible for many, many people engaging in it because they thought it was cool, because he did it.

"Has he quit the practice of dog fighting himself therefore sparing many, many dogs lives? Yes"
this is so absurd i can hardly address it. that is like saying that since i am not a serial killer, i have spared a lot of lives.

please don't allow your naiveté to qualify vick's irredeemable behavior.

angie ferritto






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