Israel Bitcoin Meetup Group

Tel Aviv Bitcoin Meetup March 2013

March 21 · 6:00 PM
Rozin Community Center

Building up on the success of the previous meetup, we are happy to announce the March 2013 meetup in the Rozin Community Center, with capacity for up to 360 attendees.

The agenda (tentative):

17:30 - Gathering
18:00 - Introduction to Bitcoin (Meni Rosenfeld)
18:35 - Free trade in the Bitcoin era (Zach Harvey)
18:55 - Special announcements
19:05 - Break
19:20 - Alternative payment technologies (Ron Gross)
19:40 - Bitcoin regulation (Jonathan Rouach)
20:00 - Q&A
20:30 - Free discussion

We will try to start the talks at 18:00 sharp, so please make an effort to arrive before that. Kosher refreshments will be served, and there will be plentiful opportunities to chat about Bitcoin with your peers.

Parking is available in the nearby streets. In addition the following Dan bus lines pass through the area: 6, 13, 24, 25, 27, 49, 113, 121, 127.

Make sure to RSVP, and check this page for any updates.

Join or login to comment.

Ron Gross

וידאוים מכנס רוזין מרץ 2013!

לקח לנו זמן, אבל הנה כל ההרצאות + שאלות ותשובות בסוף.
תודה רבה לכל המרצים והעוזרים, כולל אביב כהן על העריכה הטכנית ואלכס כהן על הארגון.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist...

1 · May 9
Alex Shani

I am looking for Start-Ups to join the new program by the Chief Scientific Office “מסלול סיוע לקידום חברות מתחילות”. This new program provides funding also to Product Marketing activities. The program will fund 50% of product development cost (including 20% O/H) for 2 years up to 10 Millions IS. It is a one phase application and approval covering the 2 years. After getting approved the entrepreneurs will have 6 months to get the investment for the additional required funds required for the project. The New Program assumes that a positive evaluation and an approval by the CSO will support Start-Ups in getting additional investment. Call me [masked]

0 · April 21
Doron

מתי יהיה המפגש הבא?

0 · April 20
- Ron Gross
  
  ביום רביעי יש התכנסות לא פורמלית בפאב המיידלרס בחיפה.
  
  https://www.facebook.c...
  
  לגבי מפגש יותר מסודר - אנחנו חושבים לארגן מפגש ביוני בחיפה, עדיין אין משהו קונקרטי.
  
  0 · April 20
Ofer Rotem

have a look at: http://bitcoincharts.com/
there is a pie chart under the title: "Hashrate Distribution"
I see that about 51% goes to "unknown", and there are a few other, smaller, "unknowns".
Is that a specific "unknown", meaning that a certain group/person is producing more than 50% of the bitcoins?

1 · March 22
- View all 4 replies
- Michael Foox
  
  "A large portion of Unknown blocks does not mean an attack on the network, it simply means we have been unable to determine the origin."
  
  2 · March 22
- Michael Foox
  
  http://blockchain.inf...
  
  1 · March 22
- Meni Rosenfeld
  
  Not sure what you mean. In the chart I see there is about 30% "unknown", plus a small piece of "other known". The latter are sources that are recognized but are too small to deserve their own label in the chart.
  
  0 · March 23
- Ofer Rotem
  
  I see about 50% labeled as unknown (on the left), then another ~10% labeled also as unknown (bottom-right), and a third labeled Other Known.
  You can see the image I'm referring to here:
  https://fbcdn-sphotos-...
  or here:
  http://static.blockch...
  
  I understand from people's answers (Michael and Ron) that that doesn't mean the there are two "unknown" entities (as in two people or two companies) that have 50% and 10% of the mining, but that there are many unknown _different_ sources.
  If that's the case, then there is no problem.
  
  0 · March 27
Estrella Demonte

I have raised this in the past....this "unknown" origin is bothering me. The market share of the unknowns bitcoin mining pools is huge!

1 · March 22
- Ron Gross
  
  "Unknown" isn't a single entity, it's probably just solo miners.
  
  1 · March 23
- Ofer Rotem
  
  I wonder why are there a few parts labeled "unknown" in the pie chart instead of a single one..
  
  0 · March 23
Ron Gross

Great to see old and new faces, thanks all for attending!

3 · March 21
- Amit Kazmirsky
  
  Thank you for a great meetup and the pizza, as we both know that the cake is a lie.
  
  0 · March 22
Ofer Rotem

The initiative:
I'm sure everyone that came to this meeting was a "sold audience" in the sense that we believe e-currency should work.
I'm also pretty sure that people, like myself, have ideas about how to "spread the word" and make a profit on the way (aka "start-up").
That being said, I think many good connections can spring from these meetings, so if anyone has an idea and/or is looking for a partner, this can be the forum to post on the subject.
Personally, I have a few ideas but I don't have an intention of leaving my workplace, so time is a constraint for me. Even-so, I'd be glad to hear about ideas, be a part of an initiative and get more involved, so if anybody can offer me that I'll be glad to take it :)

1 · March 22
- Ron Gross
  
  Thanks.
  
  I believe there will be a business/startup oriented meetup in the near future. We (everyone, not just Meni and me) need to organize it.
  
  3 · March 22
Ofer Rotem

Comments about the meetup:
My **personal** opinion: I think the Q&A part was the best part, followed, in greatness, by the legal & regulation point of view (after all, our goal is to create a community of law abiding citizens, no?).
Personally, I'd like to have more time for Q&A 'cause people's questions were very relevant and interesting (even when they hogged the mic ;) ).

2 · March 22
Andrew Williams

Mind blowing! Inspirational! Hope to become a contributing member to the world of Bitcoin.

1 · March 22
Andrew Vorobyov

If any of you still have questions about Bitcoin or Ripple - I will be glad to answer them... shoot me an email at [masked]

1 · March 21
Evyatar Meiron

Bitcoin is $3 up since the beginning of this meetup..

3 · March 21
- Tom Bigelajzen
  
  5$ already :)
  
  2 · March 21
Ofer Rotem

I am sure these questions were asked before, so if you have a relevant link that'll do:
1. There will be 21 million coins, will the coin's value be stable enough so it will be possible to set a price to a product without needing to update it every day/week/month, and for the users to grasp the coin's value without the constant need to compare it to other currencies (as we do with the Shekel)? In other words, how will deflation be stopped (or slowed to a reasonable state)?
2. Is there a good, simple, explanation to what promises the mining to stop at 21 million? And the answer "it's the algorithm" doesn't count ;)
3. I'm taking the train from Rehevot if someone wants a travel buddy :)

0 · March 20
- View all 6 replies
- Meni Rosenfeld
  
  1. Yes, inflation doesn't really help with short-term stability; that has more to do with the market cap and fundamental component. When those increase the rate will be stable.
  
  Re longer-term trends, when Bitcoin penetration reaches equilibrium (whether 100% or something else), deflation in product prices will simply correspond to the economy growth, which is fairly mild.
  
  2. A blockchain with more than 21M coins is not valid according to currently used software. To change the limit will require everyone to switch to a software that accepts it, and to call the new software "Bitcoin". This is prevented by a Schelling fence - Bitcoin users know that if they do that Bitcoin will lose all value, so nobody will go along with it.
  
  2 · March 20
- Yuval Sapir
  
  just to clarify on q2:
  the only way to create bitcoins is to sign a block. each of the first 210000 block gives 50 bitcoins, the next 210000 blocks gives 25 bitcoins, and so forth. so after about 7 millions blocks there will be no bitcoins awarded for signing blocks (signer will still get the transaction fees but these are not new bitcoins) if you add up all these awards about 21 million bitcoins
  
  1 · March 20
- Ofer Rotem
  
  Thank you Meni & Yuval.
  Yuval, a bit terminology: What are the transaction fees and who are the signers and what are their purpose?
  
  0 · March 21
- Yuval Sapir
  
  simply put: each transaction has a list of addresses giving some amount of bitcoins and another list of addresses receiving an amount of bitcoins. the second amount has to be AT MOST equals to the first amount, i.e. the transaction can not create bitcoins. on the other hand it can be smaller and this difference is the transaction fee.
  for example I can create a transaction to give 0.1btc of which 0.099 goes to you. the remaining 0.001btc goes to whomever signs the block this transaction is included in.
  The signers (usually referred to as miners) are people who put in a lot of computation work in order to be the first to sign the block and therefor get the reward and fee
  
  0 · March 21
- Ofer Rotem
  
  Let's see if i understood: if I mine a part of a bitcoin every time that bitcoin is used in a transaction I get a fee?
  If not, then when do the miners get the fee,
  if so, who determines the fee?
  
  0 · March 21
- Yuval Sapir
  
  Not quite. You get the miner fee whenever you sign a block. This is determined by the block "height" i.e. it's place in the chain and the transaction fees within this block as I explained
  
  0 · March 21
Maayan Kimhi

Anychance someone is coming from south TLV and have a place for me and my dog (in training to be a service dog for the blinds)?
Will pay for gas and promise to not sing along the radio...

0 · March 21
Assaf Tal

Dear Organizers - will it be in Hebrew or English?

0 · March 21
- Meni Rosenfeld
  
  The lectures will be given in Hebrew.
  
  0 · March 21
Andrew Vorobyov

What is the optimal way to get there... bus number?

0 · March 21
- View all 3 replies
- Meni Rosenfeld
  
  Here are some ways to arrive from TAU train station:
  
  http://www.bus.co.il/...
  
  0 · March 21
- David Asher
  
  Go to moovit.co.il
  
  0 · March 21
- David Asher
  
  You will see several ways there
  
  0 · March 21
Meni Rosenfeld

There will be a sale of Yubikeys at the event, the price is 100 NIS, payable in cash or BTC.

0 · March 21
Andrew Williams

Is there anyone coming from Haifa that wants to travel together?

0 · March 21
- View all 4 replies
- Ron Gross
  
  Call me at [masked], I might be able to help you out.
  
  0 · March 21
- Michael Foox
  
  I'm coming from north by train. (from akko @ 15:48)
  
  0 · March 21
- Michael Foox
  
  though if some one can give a ride it would be nice.
  
  0 · March 21
- Ilan Rimon
  
  I'm coming from Haifa, but I'm without a car as well
  
  0 · March 21
Estrella Demonte

In Response to Cyprus Panic – BITCOIN HITS NEW ALL-TIME HIGH OF $50….er, $52, $54, $55. Bitcoin is both suspect and inspiring. Not a sure thing by any means, but worth the try!!!

1 · March 21
Revital c.

If there is lets say "traffic jam" in the information flow and all the System of bitcoin net crush - will there be a restart to it with all the money lost? As its just starting from a new point again? Or is there an automatic way that saves all the memory and calculation that already been made
An example was the bug few days ago... Did it have major effect or not? On all the users information gathered to that point

0 · March 20
- Meni Rosenfeld
  
  The blockchain data is replicated on thousands of computers (in persistent storage), so it's unlikely to be erased.
  
  The fork caused by the bug didn't have a major effect. For most people it had no effect whatsoever.
  
  0 · March 20
Mark Yevday

Next time :)

0 · March 20
Yaniv Ben-Yosef

Hopefully next time :)

0 · March 19
Ido Green

Hey Ron - Thank you for the lecture yesterday at Campus TLV.
It was very informative...
Btw, what is a recommended site for Israelis to buy bitcoins?

4 · March 12
- View all 6 replies
- Ron Gross
  
  It's a tricky question.
  
  Bitcoil, which I'm a partner of, has been running for 1.5 years and is the largest Israeli exchange. I am biased of course, but we do have lots of happy customers and Bitcoin is fairly easy to work is. The site is currently down due to some technical/regulatory issues, but it will hopefully come back online after some technical/regulatory issues are resolved (no specific ETA yet).
  
  1 · March 13
- Ron Gross
  
  If you want to invest a largeish some of money, a direct USD deposit to Mt. Gox is your best way.
  
  0 · March 13
- Ron Gross
  
  For smaller amounts, you might be able to find what you're looking for on https://localbitcoins....
  
  And finally, we do have a few competitors that sprung up in the last few weeks. They have a much lower track record than ours, but some of them are good people. Still, I was asked by them not to recommend them just yet ... they are still running the site in "beta mode". You can Google them.
  
  0 · March 13
- Ron Gross
  
  For reference, I wrote "Bitcoin" in my first reply above, and of course meant "Bitcoil" as in http://bitcoil.co.il/
  
  0 · March 13
- Ido Green
  
  Thank you sir... I'll check the options you mention.
  
  0 · March 13
- Ron Gross
  
  The site is currently down due to some technical/regulatory issues, but it will hopefully come back online after some technical/regulatory issues are resolved (no specific ETA yet). You can look for other options.
  
  0 · March 13
Aviel Livay

It would be nice if we get some more technical lectures because most of us already know the basics. Especially if you guys can get into describing the bug that was found few hours ago and its impact. BitCoin like any other currency is all about trust. How can we trust BitCoin when the software that's dealing with it is not bug free!!

3 · March 12
- Meni Rosenfeld
  
  Aviel - you know the basics but most people who will come to the meetup don't.
  
  The technical details of how Bitcoin works is difficult to explain even to technical people, let alone laymen. It's not remotely in the scope of this meetup.
  
  I might say a few words about the fork bug, but all software has bugs, the question is how severe the impact and how quickly they are fixed. In this case the impact was practically 0 and the root cause will be quickly fixed.
  
  You should consider arriving later to skip the lectures which aren't relevant to you.
  
  0 · March 12
Ruven

Will this be in english or hebrew? I am from canada and have always wanted to visit the mother land! I would be interested in coming if it were in english as I dont speak any hebrew.

0 · March 10
- Ron Gross
  
  Sorry -
  
  I believe most of the slides will be in English, but we will speak in Hebrew ... there is a majority of the crowd who understands English much less than Hebrew, so we need to adjust to them.
  
  1 · March 10
Ariel Horwitz

Anyone coming from Jerusalem?

0 · March 8
zvika veig

Is there any chance to hear about bitcoin and taxes in Israel ? I would like to hear some details from an Accountant, if possible.

0 · March 4
- View all 5 replies
- Ron Gross
  
  We don't have anything planned.
  Please see http://www.bitcoin.or...ביטקוין-ומיסים
  
  You're welcome to contact cpa.co.il if you have any questions.
  
  0 · March 4
- Jonathan Rouach
  
  Zvika, I'll try to touch on the tax status in my talk. I won't have an actual accountant opinion, but it should give you leads.
  
  0 · March 4
- Meni Rosenfeld
  
  We will try to invite the accountants we know, so maybe you'll be able to ask them in person.
  
  Also, I've asked the accountant again and he confirmed that profits from buying a foreign currency (as opposed to buying a financial instrument exposed to foreign currency) are tax-free; and that he would support the view that Bitcoin is a currency for that purpose if paid for it.
  
  1 · March 4
- Aviel Livay
  
  That accountant may support the view that Bitcoin is a currency but I doubt the Israeli govt will support that too... What about Gold? Is it money? Used to be money? People all over the world pay taxes for gains in gold!
  
  0 · March 4
- Ron Gross
  
  I suggest we discuss this on the Google Group, it's more suitable for this than meetup.
  
  0 · March 4
Yesha

I hope I can make it

0 · March 3