"Science Tests Faith"?

The promoters of this event have sent invites to area groups who have "atheism" as one of their topics. It could be interesting, entertaining or a ridiculous waste of time! Either way, it's free and open to the public.

"Science Tests Faith" at St. Stephens Church:

Scientists examine three miraculous events:

* A consecrated Communion Host becomes living flesh and blood.
* A statue of Jesus weeping real tears and shedding real blood.
* A stigmatist who bleeds from her hands, feet, and head.

*Exclusive film footage of a stigmatist who bleeds from her hands, feet, and head. Are these the wounds of Christ? What does science have to say?

*A consecrated Communion Host becomes living flesh and blood. Is it heart tissue? What does science have to say?

*A scientist (former atheist), an attorney and a famous TV Journalist witness statue of Jesus weeping real tears and shedding real blood. Are these claims true? What does science have to say?

More info & a video here:

http://www.sciencetestsfaith.com/st-stephens-44102/

“Put it this way- this is either the biggest hoax of the 20th Century, in which case it would have to be a fairly huge conspiracy, or the most important moment of the century, if not the whole millennium.” ~ Alastair Thompson, New Zealand journalist


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  • Maude

    Oh, I did very much enjoy the church. Taking a wild guess considering it was built in 1873 or something, I think the pulpit and the altar and alcove backgrounds of wood that Suzy is talking about are in the gothic revival style which I think was popular at the time. Not my favorite, but... The statues were particularly well done. You could tell they weren't modern-they were much more intricate than anything done for churches today.

    November 13, 2013

    • Robyn

      Yes. I believe St. Stephens is Gothic architecture. Gorgeous. So many places of worship are beautiful - not just Christian ones.

      December 14, 2013

  • Suzy W.

    Personally, I the church was not at all appealing. All the dark wood ornate structures up by where he was presenting was depressing and scary looking. Four of us made it half way through the video and commentaries by the gentleman and we left at the bathroom break. I'm not quite sure exactly what he was selling and what it's benefits would be, but it definitely wasn't anything I need or want. I really did want to see if there was a Q & A at the end, however, as it progressed, it did not seem it would end that way. I found it very sad that there were many little kids there trying to keep quiet. I only counted Keith, Maude, Gary & Alida...was anyone else that signed up there?

    November 13, 2013

    • Suzy W.

      I'm sorry we didn't connect with you there, Brianna.

      November 13, 2013

    • Brianna

      Well, I didn't really think many connections would happen at such an event, especially after I walked in and felt surrounded by religious people. Hopefully, I will get to know some people at future events.

      November 13, 2013

  • Mark T.

    So no one was re-converted, eh? :) We didn't make it but failed to remove rsvp's in time. From your descriptions of the event thus far, I'm not sure what they were thinking when they invited nonbelievers. Doesn't sound like they even tried to make a compelling case for anything. The original invite was from someone who identified themselves as "ML". It read: "Hello, I'd like to invite you and your fellow Cleveland atheists, freethinkers, skeptics, etc. to this upcoming event. Scientists examine three miraculous events...", etc (the rest was included in the Meetup description).

    November 13, 2013

  • Dale

    I RSVP'd yes, but very tentatively. I sort of feel like I'd be intruding into someone's church service. / And about that person in the vid with the stigmata, I think if she actually were expressing the wounds of someone who was crucified the ones on her hand should actually be on her wrist. Oh why does everyone keep getting this wrong??

    1 · November 4, 2013

    • Suzy W.

      I thought about the wrist placement too, Dale. Oh, and we wouldn't be intruding because our group was specifically "invited."

      November 13, 2013

  • Linas K M.

    I'd definitely go to this one but I have a wedding to go to. Someone, if there is a Q&A session, please ask whether the DNA of this "blood" has been tested to determine ethnicity/origins! (and go from there, this should be fun!)

    1 · November 10, 2013

    • Suzy W.

      It wasn't fun. Everyone that I saw there was somber and not smiling. :(

      November 13, 2013

  • Alida t.

    I'm in -if it gets too icky we might have to leave early!

    1 · November 12, 2013

  • Patricia M.

    Also, did anyone else make it there last night? There was a couple hundred people and I couldn't identify my freethinking peers. Was there a question and answer session after?

    1 · November 13, 2013

    • Suzy W.

      We were sitting pretty far in the back. I'm sorry we didn't connect! We only stayed until the 10 minute "bathroom" break. It was hard to sit through since it was the usual stuff and no real discussion of why it was so important to believe it. I wish I knew what happened at the end.

      November 13, 2013

  • Suzy W.

    3 of us went to The Happy Dog afterwards and enjoyed good eats and conversation!

    1 · November 13, 2013

    • Patricia M.

      I saw that bar and figured some of us would end up there. It sounded great. I was alone, so I wasn't going to stop in and check. I'm sorry I didn't recognize anyone last night.

      1 · November 13, 2013

  • Patricia M.

    I got to talk to Tim for a couple minutes. He is convinced these miracles are true, including one where a host sublimates into body and blood. He asked me what I would need to believe it. I replied a hand-picked team of scientists along with a demonstration of an amputee growing a limb back. I suggested he try and collect the $1 million from the James Randi Foundation. I left after an hour. I forgot how much I HATE being in church. The falseness it espouses and its uncritical zombie followers make me feel like a time traveler.

    1 · November 13, 2013

  • Jerry C.

    I skipped this. Getting together afterwards for some intelligent discussion would have been nice, but watching a mystical pseudo science video isn't my cup of tea. Nor is putting up with a snake oil salesman.

    1 · November 13, 2013

  • Maude

    I think the guy presenting, who does not represent any catholic church and is not a priest but a catholic who started his own evangelical "ministries" in Texas (of course he started it in Texas), is just piggybacking on a money making endeavor by that Australian "journalist" who latched on to this Bolivian stigamata woman and convinced her to come to Australia and stay with him so he could record and publish in little books all her so-called messages from Mary and Jesus as they come to her. The presenter here, seems to be just someone on the sales rung below. They do have a website where you can buy any of maybe 20 books with this woman's "teachings" for anywhere from $4 to $8 each.

    2 · November 13, 2013

  • Keith B

    The church was stunningly beautiful from an aesthetic standpoint. If you appreciate art, craftsmanship and architecture, this old building would impress you. The presentation? Not so much.

    1 · November 12, 2013

  • Alida t.

    a religious infomercial - had to leave early and get a martini!

    2 · November 12, 2013

  • Keith B

    Lame presentation. Bait 'n switch more or less. It was basically a salesman selling Catholicism.

    2 · November 12, 2013

  • Suzy W.

    I'm still going. Maude, I'm possibly up to going to Happy Dog. :)

    November 12, 2013

  • Maude

    Anybody interested in going to Happy Dog afterwards for discussion and food. It's a bar so they are open plenty late. Oh, and the cuisine is priced right and cool!

    November 12, 2013

  • Sam S.

    Spending time with the grand kids tonight.

    November 12, 2013

  • Debbi

    Going to drop out on this one, need an evening home.

    November 11, 2013

    • Rosalie

      I can understand that. I may go, though, just to raise a little hell.

      November 11, 2013

  • Rosalie

    Research alert Re the 'host": Not wishing "to prejudice the study, he purposely did not inform the team of scientists of its provenance." The expert, Dr Frederic Zugib, analyzed the 'host substance". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Zugibe
    "Zugibe is well known for his research into crucifixion and the Shroud of Turin, which modifies the theories of Pierre Barbet regarding crucifixion, and the Catholic Church regarding the Shroud of Turin. He has made numerous television appearances on these subjects, including How Jesus Died - the Final 18 Hours (Learning Channel and History Channel), The Shroud of Turin (CBC), Jesus, the Man (Discovery Channel), Son of God (BBC), Stigmata and the Shroud (In Search Of), The Stigmata (Learning Channel), The Shroud of Turin (60 Minutes, Australia), DaVinci and the Shroud (National Geographic), The Mystery of Jesus (CNN) and The Naked Archaeologist.[2]" I call confirmation Bias, intellectual dishonesty, and fraud.

    1 · November 11, 2013

  • Rosalie

    Research alert: " If asked how it is possible for her to write books in languages she does not understand, the answer is simple: she copies them.
    She has already been caught plagiarizing the work of José Prado Flores and Salvador Gómez of Guadalajara, Mexico. " A respected writer of Catholic books. About Catalina Katya Rivas, who claims to be taking dictation from God and Mary. Check it out for yourself.
    http://www.skepdic.com/rivas.html

    1 · November 11, 2013

  • Rosalie

    "If" (and it's a big if) they were going to have a discussion I would be interested. Cause they're making some crazy 'woo' claims of biblical proportions.

    November 10, 2013

  • Suzy W.

    I will be disappointed if a led "Question/Answer" session is not part of this program. Maybe, we could get there a little early to be able to personally ask the presenters if discussion will be a big part of this program.

    November 10, 2013

  • Nina

    I wonder if there will be an audience question and answer session.

    November 10, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    I will be there, I cannot resist.

    November 8, 2013

  • Dave H.

    I dunno, I seem to remember I have a proctologist's appointment or some such at that time.........

    3 · October 28, 2013

    • Dale

      I only just saw this event posted. Oh, Dave... you always have something going on up your end... of town.

      November 4, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    I am very excited for this event.

    November 4, 2013

  • Maude

    ooooh, I'm pondering this more and more. You know, the thing about the priest finding this wayward communion wafer and for some reason not explained, dropping it in water? Well, the thing is, if that wayward host was consecrated, no catholic priest would ever, ever, ever, dump it in water because that would be wrong. If it wasn't a consecrated host, why the hell didn't he just throw it in the trash bin? Why a petri dish of water? Silly stuff. And the stigmata, over and over again the vatican has sent people out to investigate such claims (they finally stopped because they have all, but one in the last century, been found to have a medical or scientific explanation). So why is this case any different?

    1 · October 27, 2013

    • Marni T.

      Because they're desperate :)

      October 31, 2013

  • Maude

    Maybe the question then, is for Marni-who were the "organizers" who sent the invite? Is there a group name or something? I figured since they were inviting the heathens, there would be discussion. Or, did the info they send imply that you just file in to watch the video like you would go to a movie theater, and then leave?

    October 28, 2013

    • Alida t.

      Who you calling a heathen???

      1 · October 29, 2013

    • Marni T.

      Maude, we have no idea. The invite was rather vague. What you see in the description is basically what we got. We don't know much more than that.

      October 31, 2013

  • Maude

    I hope, hope, hope, there are priests there for discussion. Everyone knows I'm a huge catholic apologist but so many catholics don't even know that the church largely discredits all of these types of claims as "miracles." I will be happy to tell them!!!!! The priests would have to back me up too.

    1 · October 27, 2013

    • Rosalie

      Hi there! I was raised Catholic too, but I've gone over to the dark side. But, I love talking to people about what they believe. I'm a newbee so I didn't know you were a catholic apologist. I'd love for you to tell me all about that at the party, if you're going to that...or when we meet. (The video does sound a little wonkie. You're right, they'd never put it in a saucer of water)

      1 · October 29, 2013

  • Rosalie

    hahahaha!

    October 28, 2013

  • Mark T.

    Maybe they'll be serving hors d'oeuvres... Holy Host pizzas? :)

    1 · October 28, 2013

  • Rosalie

    Viewed the St Stephen's site about this event. I was intrigued when I thought it was going to be a discussion, but the video was deadly. Now I think I should polish my cat Tuesday instead. You know, if there is something to this it'll be in all the scientific journals soon enough. I'll read your posts on how it goes. Good luck!

    1 · October 28, 2013

  • Patricia M.

    I must see this.

    1 · October 28, 2013

  • Maude

    oooh. This oughta be interesting. I wonder who is sponsoring the flick? It's at a catholic church but that doesn't mean they are sponsoring it-lots of groups rent out facilities from parishes. I hope though, there are a couple priests of the intellectual end of catholicism there to answer questions.

    2 · October 27, 2013

  • Linas K M.

    Sounds like a fun one, but I was invited to a wedding that day!

    October 27, 2013

  • Linas K M.

    So what blood type is he? Has anyone tested the DNA of the blood to trace his ancestry? lol

    2 · October 27, 2013

  • Suzy W.

    Marni, how about announcing this Meetup? I'd like to see more of us attending! :)

    October 27, 2013

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