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Re: [humanism-174] Re:About the human "soul".

From: Mark T.
Sent on: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:33 PM
Josh and Ilya,
 
It's great to have you both "chiming"!
 
I must add to my last post that a refutation, or exposing something that makes no sense at all, is not neccessarily an attack- though when it comes down to one's religion, it would usually be perceived as such.

On Nov 21,[masked]:44 PM, Josh <[address removed]> wrote:
Hi, I've been reading these posts for a while, about time for me to chime in regards to Ilya's post

I totally agree that trying to change the mindset of the Christian nation is mostly fruitless and counterproductive.  I think that if we really want to plant the seed of reason in the minds of young Americans, we should do so not being hostile, and not by attacking their beliefs, but rather by making ourselves more visible and setting a good example.  One of the most common arguments I hear against atheism is that we have no moral ground without a belief in god.  If we can show the world that atheists can be just as moral and righteous as religious folks, we increase the chances that curious young Christians will turn to us for answers to their inevitable questions

Another thing I wanted to touch on is Atheism in Judaism.  I don't how many Freethinkers here were raised Jewish, but Judaism is not at all like Christianity as far as religious dogma is concerned.  It's a difficult concept for non-jews to understand, that someone can be an atheist jew.  I bring the subject up because of Ilya's comments on the holocaust.  While some jews may have come out the holocaust with a greater sense of religion, the majority did not.  The state of Israel, that sprung up out the holocaust, actually has one of the highest proportions of atheist populations in the world.  Seems odd for a country that is technically a theocracy, but the holocaust, for obvious reasons, shattered the belief in god for many jews.  There is a good book called The Future Jew that argues that holocaust is the ultimate proof of Atheism.  The so called "secular humanist" sect of Judaism is growing quickly.


On Nov 21,[masked]:52 PM, ILYA <[address removed]> wrote:
Hello fellow humans...

Let me start my first post with a bit of a critique.
It appears to me that attempts to chip away at Xtians' believe are a royal waist of time. Religion is a collection of self perpetuating memes that have survived and have been strengthen by doubters.

What power, do you think, reasonable questioning of belief has, if such atrocities like Holocaust had strengthened people's religious belief in the past? Questioning one's religious perceptions is walking into their playing field and trying to win by their rules.

I suggest to read up on HItchens, Dawkins, Pinker, and other bright forward thinking individuals and lead those discussions into understanding of our species.

Majority of people that belong to the church related crowd talk science and show interest in well presented subject and become totally oblivious to it's contradiction to the religious dogma. Once the information is planted in their heads it becomes foundation for the new outlook on the world.

At any rate, we will get farther by disseminating new information about human intelligence, physiology, evolution, etc. than if we would try to win against the outdated ideology in it's own game.

Later,
ILYA.

There are two kinds of people: the kind that divide the world into two kinds of people and the kind that DO NOT.






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