Re: [humanism-174] Romney's speech on faith

From: Josh
Sent on: Saturday, December 8, 2007 2:30 AM
I actually did mean just what brian said, that religion inherently denies full freedom, because you must obey a deity.  An omnipotent force implies determinism and a lack of free will

But I think Ken's point is just as valid, actually Romney did make a point to say both (and in doing so, made an obvious logical flaw in assuming the converse is true).  If people did not have the free will to chose to believe in any god, there would not be such a plethora of religions.  Romney's error is that it does not work the other way.  You can obviously have freedom without a belief in god, I think we are an obvious example of that

On Dec 7,[masked]:52 PM, Brian <[address removed]> wrote:
No, I believe he means what he said, because with religion what to do and not to do are dictated--thus, one is not free.
 
I agree with that statement. It's a free-will/determinism issue.
In order for god to be omniscient, free-will must be restricted; otherwise many of the traits of perfection that are attributed to God by religion cannot hold up.


 
On Dec 7,[masked]:42 PM, ken <[address removed]> wrote:

Yeah, I'm being overly logical, but I believe you mean to say that the
truth is the /converse/ of what Romney said, i.e., religion requires
freedom.

Thanks for the link.


On 12/06/[masked]:10 PM Josh wrote:
> you can listen here:
>
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16965839&ft=1&f=1001
> <http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16965839&ft=1&f=1001>
>
> Romney says "Freedom requires religion"
>
> It seems to me to be the exact opposite of that...
>
>
>
>
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