Re: [humanism-174] X Mas

From: coreyhaines
Sent on: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:57 AM
On the surface, it would be great if we could all get along and
respect each others views and celebrate the wonderful traditions that
come with everyone's chosen form of celebration, the world we live in
today isn't that world: people attack each other
(http://www.cnn.co...­), vandalism
takes place of other people's displays
(http://www.oleant...­,
http://www.wgrz.c...­),
etc. Putting up a mildly aggressive anti-religion display for winter
solstice is worthwhile, in my opinion.
What would have happened if african-americans had decided that they
would try to fight their particular brand of oppression by showing
everyone what good people they were? How about women? How about
homosexuals (who are still fighting)?

It is time that the non-believers, freethinkers, humanists, whatever
you want to call them, stand up and be a little aggressive, even at
the expense of looking a bit obnoxious occasionally. Of course, it is
just my opinion, ymmv.

-Corey

On Dec 16,[masked]:37 AM, Michael <[address removed]> wrote:
> I agree with you in that no, we shouldn't feel obligated to prove ourselves
> to anyone for being what we are.  We aren't going to change anyone's opinion
> doing so, either.
>
> What I was saying is that there needs to be a line that mustn't be crossed
> by anyone.  Much of our anger toward the Christian community stems from the
> atrocious manner in which they treat everyone; we must be careful not to
> stoop to that level.  Posting that image on your website, or at your
> meetings is fine, but those Atheists chose to do it when they were invited
> to participate in a HOLIDAY display.  Some things people of faith revere are
> right to be revered; we must respect this, if we are to hope to receive the
> same consideration.
>
> Michael
>
>
> Mark Tiborsky <[address removed]> wrote:
>
> I feel no obligation to prove to society that I am a good person, even
> though I'm an Atheist. If people that know me don't trust me because of my
> atheism, then it's their problem, not mine.
>
> The Vermont display is "in bad taste", I'll agree to that. I would not want
> to participate in something such as this.
>
> However, I am sick & tired of the fact that it's perfectly acceptable for
> someone to blather on & on about the holy Christ or whatnot in the public
> sphere (see Romney & Huckabee), while we, the non-believers etc., are
> expected to "keep quiet". I'm also very sick of the "God-fearing = Good"
> mentality. Screw all this, I am ready to help raise the collective voice of
> freethought in our society- not 20 years from now, not 10 years from now,
> but NOW.
>
> So I guess I'm a waffler on this one- It IS in terrible taste, but I am glad
> that there are those who are unafraid to stick their necks out a bit.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Dec 15,[masked]:54 AM, Josh <[address removed]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm totally with michael on this one.  The religious right has done an
> excellent job of convincing its constituents that there is an Secular /
> Atheist force in America who's sole objective is too destroy Christians and
> their beliefs.  While there are some (if not many) Atheists who do feel this
> way, I think the vast majority of us just want to be respected, treated
> fairly, and not have other's beliefs forced upon us.  Christians are afraid
> of atheism because they believe that there can be no morality without god.
> This is not the way to change that belief.  If we want to earn the respect
> of Christians we need to take the moral high ground, and find other positive
> ways to make ourselves more visible
> >
> >
> > On Dec 15,[masked]:35 AM, coreyhaines <[address removed]> wrote:
> >
> > > Do you consider ffrf's annual message to be offensive?
> > >
> > > http://ffrf.org/n...­
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 14,[masked]:53 PM, Michael <[address removed]> wrote:
> > > > Now that's just people being assholes.  The whole point of the holiday
> > > > season is to be joyous, festive, and warmhearted.  Not to spit in
> peoples
> > > > faces.  Those people should be ashamed of themselves.  That is
> precisely the
> > > > kind of behavior that drags us down a notch.  It's like hanging a big
> sign
> > > > that says, "Hey, we're Atheist's, and we're assholes too, so fuck you
> and
> > > > your family, and enjoy your holiday, but, while you do, don't forget
> about
> > > > the horrible atrocities that people doped up on your stupidity have
> > > > committed!"  Yea, that'll get the point across.
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > john f kaiser <[address removed] > wrote:
> > > >  Check this site out
> > > >
> > > > http://www.zwire....­
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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-- 
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