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Re: [humanism-174] Check out On the Freedom to Offend an Imaginary God : Sam Harris

From: Ellen
Sent on: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:31 PM
It's not just ignorant people with little schooling who don't understand our First Amendment; all sorts of well-educated people in most countries on Earth have no idea how far we take a person's right to free speech. We're actually on the extreme end of this issue. Even most Western countries consider protecting their citizens from insults against their beliefs and culture as more important (or at least as important) as someone's right to speak freely.

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:04 AM, sheri presloid <[address removed]> wrote:
That was a great article.  

One thing Sam said:

The moment one adds seer stones, sacred underpants, the planet Kolob, and a secret handshake required to win admittance into the highest heaven, Mormonism stands revealed for what it is: the religious equivalent of rhythmic gymnastics. 

This is so true.  Why doesn't ANYONE in the media or even a person at a rally ask Mitt if he really believes in Kolob?  I tried Googling any interview that would show this direct question to him with a direct response and I cannot find one.  I am sorry, but this is pretty important. It was scary enough with Bush talking to god in the Oval Office. 

To have this question posed to Mitt would be a catch-22 for him.  He would either say "No, not really" and that will piss off the Mormons or he would say "Yes" and that will take not only the 47% he pissed off, but maybe a few other people from the GOP to think "WTF?"

Anyway, whether it is Islam or any other religion, it seems you have to "think before speaking" and I DO NOT agree with that at all.  You can have christian groups give death threats against American Atheists putting up billboards ahead of the DNC, but you better not say ANYTHING about their cult.

Now I am all fired up. ha

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Tim Campbell <[address removed]> wrote:
An excellent article and I agree in principle with most everything Sam wrote.
The problem of course is how to determine a viable course of action. How do we explain our system of government to ignorant people whose education has been narrowed by their religious leaders to little more than education IN their Fifth Century religion?  When all you know is what your religious leaders or instructors have "taught" you, when the only book you read is your religion's "sacred scripture", when you believe that your "sacred scripture" is the ONLY sacred scripture, and IS actually sacred, then reason and rationality are of no use and will be rejected anyway as blasphemy.
So do we retaliate? And how? And against who?
All of this is complicated by two facts:
1) We are still very dependant upon the oil that sits under their unwashed unshod feet
2) There are still thousands of American citizens and their dependants (ranging from diplomats and business people to simply tourists) still living, working, or visiting in Muslim-dominated countries.
We only have so many Marines.
I DO think that apologizing to these ignorant loons for the actions of our own ignorant loons is wrong. But how do we explain that we have no control over our own loons to loons who have ALWAYS been controlled by their mullahs and imams and their dictators and sheiks etc, and who won't listen to us anyway?
It is very indicative that the Muslim peasants blame America for permitting this film to be made (and for every other action that these loons jump to be offended by!). And that they demand that the U.S. arrest and punish (preferably by beheading) anyone who is found to insult the "prophet".  Apparently, like our own fundaloons, the Muslim fundaloons have not read the Constitution of the U.S. either.  They really do not understand what freedom of speech entails. They probably do not even know that there IS such a thing as freedom of speech!
Part of me says that we ought to just turn the whole Muslim world into nuke-based glass, but that would not solve our own loon problem, and if we do that, we had better start drilling for more oil, or start ramping up the buggy-whip factories!
That said, this violence is very much the result of arrogant self-righteous and cynical Muslim clerics inciting their ignorant peasantry with lies and misinformation.  A gutter religion designed for gutter people.
Too much religion, not enough education!
Tim Campbell

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