Re: [humanism-174] My reply to an email my sister forwarded to me.....

From: Tim C.
Sent on: Sunday, November 25, 2012 4:27 PM
tsk tsk, "orel". lol  My "closeted" comment was entirely in reference to your religiosity. That you seem to see it otherwise is much more your own personal issue than mine.  One can be a "closeted" atheist, a "closeted" fundaloon, a "closeted" anything for that matter. The term refers to someone pretending to be one thing when actually being the opposite.  Of course, common usage has been in reference to homosexuality, but the term can certainly be used in reference to non-sexual traits or beliefs.   In my opinion, you may or may not be religious; you are definitely NOT a "freethinker".  Again, my opinion only!   
 
Mr. Campbell
 
In a message dated 11/25/2012 2:32:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [address removed] writes:
Isn't it odd how Mr. Campbell always seem to find the
homo-erotic nature of a comment, even when none
exists.  He always seems to complete the circle. 

Dogma
1. That which is held as an established opinion;
esp., a definite and authoritative tenet, also a
code or formulation of such tenets, as by a
school of art or philosophy; as by pedagogical 
dogma
             - Webster's International Dictionary.

I thought that something like gravity was an
established opinion.  But I guess that is
just my belief. 

So, many more postmodernists in this group than
I thought. 


M. Orel


On[masked]:45, Tim Campbell wrote:
Moreover, "dogma" is meant to be unquestioned. Dogma is generally considered to be not only an established opinion, but accepted without question as established truth. 
 
I have had a fundamentalist tell me that if Jesus himself came to him and told him something that contradicted "biblical truth", the fundie would conclude that Jesus was actually Satan because Jesus would never contradict what the fundie believes to be "truth" with a capital T.
 
Science offers many opinions and theories and hypotheses and speculations, but ALL are subject to continued testing and revision as needed!  Debate and contention, along with experiment and prediction are parts of the scientific arena that are often forbidden in the theological arena.  Put another way, the religious trump card against deviation from dogma has always been the accusation of heresy or blasphemy.
 
Tim



On[masked]:01, TC3 wrote:
I was talking about whipping out your books and measuring the depth of the pages. Ew,. . .  you weirdo.  lol


On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Tim Campbell <[address removed]> wrote:
This is hardly a penis-measuring contest, nu.  This is both a discussion and an argument, as well as a response to insult and troll-posting.  If you do not wish to contribute or read these, you have a delete key.  I'm sure that many here use that key when seeing specific subjects or posts by specific contributors.  I do!
 
Tim Campbell
 
In a message dated 11/25/[masked]:38:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [address removed] writes:
Will you two just whip them out and measure them already. Nuh uh , yuh huh, is getting old.


On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Randy Pelton <[address removed]> wrote:
Mark,

Again you display both an ignorance of science and your post-modernist disease. Note that the first definition refers to "established opinion." The theories and conclusions of science are NOT opinions. They are provisional truths based upon large quantities of evidence and observation. Opinion's do not require evidence, and are frequently proffered by individuals without any offer of evidence or facts to support them. When opinion finds its way into science - and, yes, I do admit it occasionally does - it is quickly rooted out. The scientific enterprise assures that opinions do not in the end become established conclusions in science. Thus dogma has no permanent nor welcome safe haven in science. Newton's Theory of Gravity, Einstein's General Theory of Relativity and Special Theory of Relativity, the Big Bang Theory, Cell Theory, Evolutionary Theory, the Heliocentric Theory of the Solar System, and the myriad other established theories of science are not opinions and are not dogmas. 

Of course, being a post-modernist, you would have us think otherwise. It suits your purposes, whatever they may be and whatever motivates them, to have us all believe that one viewpoint or one set of conclusions are no better, no nearer the truth, than another. If you persist in this lunacy then I will conclude it is because your mind has been thoroughly intellectually polluted and contaminated by post-modernism. 

LIke assholes, everybody has one or more opinions. And opinions oftentimes, like assholes, are a source of shit. Please stop spreading your shit concerning this topic. 

Randy



From: Mark R. Orel <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 2:30 AM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] My reply to an email my sister forwarded to me.....

Randy: 

I fear you are showing your ignorance of the
word.  Please note the First definition. 

Dogma
1. That which is held as an established opinion;
esp., a definite and authoritative tenet, also a
code or formulation of such tenets, as by a
school of art or philosophy; as by pedagogical 
dogma
2. A doctrine or body of doctrines of theology and
and religion formally stated and authoritatively
proclaimed by a church or sect, esp., the
Roman Catholic Church. 

Pedagogic
Of or characteristic or teachers or of teaching:
also pedagogical


M. Orel



On[masked]:25, Randy Pelton wrote:
Mark,

Science has a dogma? Now you are showing real ignorance about science. Science has no dogma. There may be people who will present a scientific idea or conclusion in a dogmatic fashion. But this is not a trait of science itself. And to say otherwise is just plain bullshit. This is just more of your postmodernist nonsense leading you to make foolish statements. Science is one of the few means of acquiring knowledge that corrects its own errors. We certainly don't see that in theology.

Randy


From: Mark R. Orel <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] My reply to an email my sister forwarded to me.....

Chris:

Dogma, is a doctrine; tenet; belief. 
Ritual, a set form or system of rites,
religious or otherwise. 
Science, politics, humanism, all have
dogma and ritual, and spots even more
so. 

Religion does not require a supreme
being.  You are contradicting your own
assertion that the state can be a religion. 
"What always gets me is that people seem
to think that the Stalinist Russia and Maoist
China had no religion.  That couldn't be further
from the truth.  The state WAS the religion,
complete with unquestionable dogma, ritual,
and all the other accoutrements."



M. Orel

On[masked]:36, Chris K wrote:
Actually, no. 

There has to be dogma, a supreme being and ritual. 

Chris


Sent from my ayayayphone

On Nov 23, 2012, at 2:58 AM, "Mark R. Orel" <[address removed]> wrote:

Chris:

So you are using religion as,
any system of belief's, practices,
ethical values, etc., resembling,
suggestive of, or likened to such a
system.  In that humanism, science,
politics and anything else can be a
religion. 


M. Orel


On[masked]:52, Chris K wrote:
No, the state was the religion. 

Whatever Hitler's true beliefs were (and what do we really know of anyone's?) we can refer to a hundred instances in which he portrays himself as a Christian and none in which he portrays himself as an atheist. 

I have never said the president wasn't as religious as he makes himself out to be although many have asserted it. 

Chris






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