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Re: [humanism-174] Now, about that God character... :)

From: Greg P.
Sent on: Thursday, December 6, 2012 6:22 PM
To clarify, my comment about science fiction was a follow 
up to Tim Campbell's comment about 'too much reality', and 
not an attempt to equate Sci-Fi with Santa Claus.

On Thu, 6 Dec[masked]:31:39 -0500
  Randy Pelton <[address removed]> wrote:
> Will watch these as soon as I can. In the meantime, I 
>decided not to wait to explore the matter. I ran across a 
>piece written in 2009 by Reba Boyd Wooden, executive 
>director of the Indiana branch of CFI. It is an 
>interesting essay on the subject. Reba did some of the 
>research I indicated I plan to do. Read her take on the 
>matter. I won't spoil it by giving away where she comes 
>down on the question of "Should Parents Encourage 
>Children to Believe in Santa Claus?"
> 
> Here is the link to the her 
>essay: http://www.center...­
> 
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________­____________
> From: TC3 <[address removed]>
> To: [address removed] 
> Sent: Thursday, December 6,[masked]:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Now, about that God 
>character... :)
> 
> 
> I recommend these whenever the opportunity arises, as it 
>has, here and now. 
> 
> http://www.youtub...­
> 
> http://www.youtub...­
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Randy Pelton 
><[address removed]> wrote:
> 
> I think there is a significant difference between 
>science fiction and the magical thinking that accompanies 
>what some here think are the harmless tales of childhood. 
>They may be. But I am not so sure. I submit that science 
>fiction, at least the good stuff, starts with science and 
>extends and extrapolates it. Well written science fiction 
>deals with that which has some probability, some 
>possibility. Science fiction is grounded in some actual 
>science and in some reality. Santa Claus, the tooth fairy 
>and the other so-called innocent tales of our youth are 
>not. I still suspect that these kinds of tales may prime 
>the mind for magical thinking later on. It is also 
>important to consider when youth start reading science 
>fiction as opposed to when they are fed the mythological 
>fairy tales. Most start reading science fiction at an age 
>where they are much less likely to interpret it as real 
>and assume it to be factual. Not so with religion and the 
>fairy-tales of our
> very earliest years. Our minds are much more 
>impressionable at the age at which these tales are fed to 
>us. I admit these are speculations on my part. I am not 
>offering an argument. I don't know nearly enough about 
>the development of the brain nor about psychology to know 
>what the science actually says on this topic. If I can 
>find the time I think I will look into the subject.
>>
>>
>>Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>____________­____________________­
>> From: Greg Priddy <[address removed]>
>>To: [address removed] 
>>Sent: Thursday, December 6,[masked]:51 PM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Now, about that God 
>>character...­ :)
>> 
>>
>>I'd agree with that. Think of how much of science fiction 
>>has become reality. And who is largely responsible for 
>>that? People who read a lot of science fiction when they 
>>were growing up!
>>
>>On Thu, 6 Dec[masked]:26:54 -0500
>>
>>Tim Campbell <[address removed]> wrote:
>>> Also true.  Perhaps too much reality is equally bad for 
>>>the young  minds. After all, imagination is an important 
>>>part of our humanity!  
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 12/6/2012 4:23:24 P.M. Eastern 
>>>Standard­ Time,  [address removed] writes:
>>> 
>>> And one  can also read fairy tales about dragons and 
>>>princess­es and
>>> witches and  such, to children, I believe, with no long 
>>>term  ill
>>> effects...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:18 PM,
> Greg Priddy <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>> The difference I see is that  parents don't persist and 
>>>>rein­force the 
>>> common
>>>> childhood mythical  characters as they do with religion.
>>>> 
>>>> Also, children are not  taught that any of those 
>>>>char­acters will send 
>>> them to
>>>> hell for  eternity if they are bad or stop believing. 
>>>>The worst outcome 
>>> in a
>>>>  child's mind would be a lack of hidden eggs or presents 
>>>>unde­r the  tree.
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, 6 Dec[masked]:05:49 -0500
>>>>  Tim  Campbell <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ I have  mixed feelings on this. I understand the "fun" 
>>>>>­of Santa and the
>>>>>­ 
> Easter Bunny, etc, but at the same time, they ARE 
>fictional creatures  
>>> and
>>>>>­ the  parents who pretend are actually lying to their 
>>>>>­children. Is this 
>>> truly
>>>>>­ harmless  fun or does it in fact set  up a psychological 
>>>>>­basis for 
>>> teaching
>>>>>­ them other  myths as  fact? And of course, when the 
>>>>>­children find out 
>>> that
>>>>>­ Santa is a  myth,  does that discovery affect their 
>>>>>­acceptance of  
>>> anything
>>>>>­ coming from their  parents?
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­  When my mother told me that thunder was the sound of 
>>>>>­Jesus and the  
>>> angels
>>>>>­ bowling, was she lying, or did she just not know what 
>>>>>­the  hell thunder 
>>> is?
>>>>>­ And was she harming me or would I have been  better off 
>>>>>­with a more 
>>> rational
>>>>>­ explanation?  Santa,
> angels  bowling, the Easter Bunny, Magic Jesus. Is
>>>>>­ there any real  difference?
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ And btw, yes, I and my ex DID roll with  the Santa thing 
>>>>>­with our  kids!
>>>>>­ Didn't seem to harm them, but  they now know my position 
>>>>>­on all of  this
>>>>>­  stuff!
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ Tim  Campbell
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ In a message dated 12/6/2012  3:16:54 P.M. Eastern 
>>>>>­Standard Time,
>>>>>­ [address removed]  writes:
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ That's  just wrong. I understand it was  in the context 
>>>>>­of lesson on 
>>> 'real
>>>>>­ vs.  imaginary', but still,  the teacher should take 
>>>>>­into account what's 
>>> real
>>>>>­ *to a 5-year  old*.
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy: all part  of the 
>>>>>­fun of being a
>>>>>­ child. Kids figure that stuff out on  their own, and 
>>>>>­parents let them 
>>> let it
>>>>>­ go. Unlike some other  myths we know  about...
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­  -Greg
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ On Thu, 6 Dec[masked]:01:48 -0500
>>>>>­  Mark  Tiborsky <[address removed]>  wrote:
>>>>>­> 
>>>>>­> Some parents in TX are  furious  because a teacher 
>>>>>­>indicated to
>>>>>­> Kindergarten
>>>>>­>  students  that Santa isn't  real-
>>>>>­> 
>>>>>­> 
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­  
>>> http://www.huffin...­
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ 
>>>>>­ 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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> ([address removed]) from The Cleveland 
>Freethinkers.
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> This message was sent by Randy Pelton 
>([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
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>>profile
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