addressalign-toparrow-leftarrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcameraccwchatcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-checkcircle-with-crosscircle-with-pluscrossdots-three-verticaleditemptyheartexporteye-with-lineeyefacebookfolderfullheartglobegmailgoogleimageimagesinstagramlinklocation-pinmagnifying-glassmailminusmoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1outlookpersonplusprice-ribbonImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartickettrashtriangle-downtriangle-uptwitteruseryahoo

Re: [humanism-174] Now, about that God character... :)

From: Joanna
Sent on: Friday, December 7, 2012 9:17 AM
Very interesting read.  As my oldest is about to turn 3, I am currently struggling with this issue.  It pains me to lie to him about anything. I feel it will forever make him doubt what I tell him (not that that's an awful thing, but I do want him to trust that I always have his best interest at heart).  In fact, I can recall the exact disappointing - yet liberating - moment I discovered the truth about Santa Clause and all other mythical childhood characters. It started with the toothfairy.  After losing one of my teeth (I think I was around 8), something just clicked in me and the whole idea of a toothfairy just seemed odd.

"Mom, is the toothfairy real," I asked?

"Do you want to know the truth?"

"Yes."

"Are you sure?"

"Yes."

"No," she said. "The toothfairy is not real."

I remember thinking that it wasn't a big deal because she only left me a buck here and there.  Haha.  But, then it happened: "What about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?"

"Nope, sorry," mom said. "None of them are real. I put your presents under the tree and make your Easter baskets."

Damn. That sucked.  But, after just a short time, knowing the truth was enough consolation for me. I wasn't mad at my mom, although I did wonder why she would lie about such things.  And,  now, I can't help but wonder if this was not a defining moment that made it possible for me to let go of the god drilled into my head throughout my childhood.  I suppose I'll never know if the two are related.

Anyway, my husband really wants our children to share in the "magic" of Christmas.  I'm torn.  Although I know my son didn't fully understand, I did sit him down and say, "Willie, we are going to play a game of make believe. There is a character called Santa that brings presents to good boys and girls and we are going to pretend that he's real for a while."  LMAO.  I just didn't know what else to do to please everyone.  So hopefully he understood some of this and it will be in the back of his mind as my husband puts on that Santa suit for pictures. 

I do like Heathen's method and may incorporate that into this mess a little: "Some people believe Santa Clause is real, but Mommy doesn't. I just think it's fun to make believe."  I suppose that is a happy middle-of-the-road. 

I'm paying close attention to this conversation so if anyone has any other ideas, I'm all eyes!
 


 

 

 

In Loving Memory of SSG Edward W. Carman
Nov. 1976-Apr.2004 - US Army, 2/12 Cavalry




From: Randy Pelton <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Thu, December 6, 2012 5:31:38 PM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Now, about that God character... :)

Will watch these as soon as I can. In the meantime, I decided not to wait to explore the matter. I ran across a piece written in 2009 by Reba Boyd Wooden, executive director of the Indiana branch of CFI. It is an interesting essay on the subject. Reba did some of the research I indicated I plan to do. Read her take on the matter. I won't spoil it by giving away where she comes down on the question of "Should Parents Encourage Children to Believe in Santa Claus?"



Randy




From: TC3 <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Thursday, December 6,[masked]:24 PM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Now, about that God character... :)

I recommend these whenever the opportunity arises, as it has, here and now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOCUH7TxHRI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0yhHKWUa0g




On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Randy Pelton <[address removed]> wrote:
I think there is a significant difference between science fiction and the magical thinking that accompanies what some here think are the harmless tales of childhood. They may be. But I am not so sure. I submit that science fiction, at least the good stuff, starts with science and extends and extrapolates it. Well written science fiction deals with that which has some probability, some possibility. Science fiction is grounded in some actual science and in some reality. Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the other so-called innocent tales of our youth are not. I still suspect that these kinds of tales may prime the mind for magical thinking later on. It is also important to consider when youth start reading science fiction as opposed to when they are fed the mythological fairy tales. Most start reading science fiction at an age where they are much less likely to interpret it as real and assume it to be factual. Not so with religion and the fairy-tales of our very earliest years. Our minds are much more impressionable at the age at which these tales are fed to us. I admit these are speculations on my part. I am not offering an argument. I don't know nearly enough about the development of the brain nor about psychology to know what the science actually says on this topic. If I can find the time I think I will look into the subject.

Randy


From: Greg Priddy <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Thursday, December 6,[masked]:51 PM

Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Now, about that God character... :)

I'd agree with that. Think of how much of science fiction has become reality. And who is largely responsible for that? People who read a lot of science fiction when they were growing up!

On Thu, 6 Dec[masked]:26:54 -0500

Tim Campbell <[address removed]> wrote:
> Also true.  Perhaps too much reality is equally bad for the young  minds. After all, imagination is an important part of our humanity! 
>
> In a message dated 12/6/2012 4:23:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  [address removed] writes:
>
> And one  can also read fairy tales about dragons and princesses and
> witches and  such, to children, I believe, with no long term  ill
> effects...
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Greg Priddy <[address removed]> wrote:
>> The difference I see is that  parents don't persist and reinforce the
> common
>> childhood mythical  characters as they do with religion.
>>
>> Also, children are not  taught that any of those characters will send
> them to
>> hell for  eternity if they are bad or stop believing. The worst outcome
> in a
>>  child's mind would be a lack of hidden eggs or presents under the  tree.
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Dec[masked]:05:49 -0500
>>  Tim  Campbell <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have  mixed feelings on this. I understand the "fun" of Santa and the
>>>  Easter Bunny, etc, but at the same time, they ARE fictional creatures 
> and
>>> the  parents who pretend are actually lying to their children. Is this
> truly
>>> harmless  fun or does it in fact set  up a psychological basis for
> teaching
>>> them other  myths as  fact? And of course, when the children find out
> that
>>> Santa is a  myth,  does that discovery affect their acceptance of 
> anything
>>> coming from their  parents?
>>>
>>>  When my mother told me that thunder was the sound of Jesus and the 
> angels
>>> bowling, was she lying, or did she just not know what the  hell thunder
> is?
>>> And was she harming me or would I have been  better off with a more
> rational
>>> explanation?  Santa, angels  bowling, the Easter Bunny, Magic Jesus. Is
>>> there any real  difference?
>>>
>>> And btw, yes, I and my ex DID roll with  the Santa thing with our  kids!
>>> Didn't seem to harm them, but  they now know my position on all of  this
>>>  stuff!
>>>
>>> Tim  Campbell
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 12/6/2012  3:16:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> [address removed]  writes:
>>>
>>> That's  just wrong. I understand it was  in the context of lesson on
> 'real
>>> vs.  imaginary', but still,  the teacher should take into account what's
> real
>>> *to a 5-year  old*.
>>>
>>> Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy: all part  of the fun of being a
>>> child. Kids figure that stuff out on  their own, and parents let them
> let it
>>> go. Unlike some other  myths we know  about...
>>>
>>>  -Greg
>>>
>>> On Thu, 6 Dec[masked]:01:48 -0500
>>>  Mark  Tiborsky <[address removed]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Some parents in TX are  furious  because a teacher indicated to
>>>> Kindergarten
>>>>  students  that Santa isn't  real-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/12/04/teacher-tells-students-santa-claus-fake_n_2237521.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> Please  Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone
> on
>>> this  mailing list  ([address removed])
>>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/
>>> This  message  was sent by Greg Priddy ([address removed]) from The
>>>  Cleveland  Freethinkers.
>>> To learn more about Greg Priddy,  visit his/her member profile:
>>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/members/14163381/
>>>  Set  my mailing list to email me
>>>
>>> As they  are  sent
>>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=1
>>>
>>>  In  one daily  email
>>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=2
>>>
>>>  Don't  send me mailing list  messages
>>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=0
>>>  Meetup,  PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] |
>>>  [address removed]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to  everyone on
>> this mailing list ([address removed])
>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/
>> This message was sent by  Greg Priddy ([address removed]) from The
>> Cleveland  Freethinkers.
>> To learn more about Greg Priddy, visit his/her member profile:
>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/members/14163381/
>> Set my  mailing list to email me
>>
>> As they are sent
>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=1
>>
>>  In one daily email
>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=2
>>
>>  Don't send me mailing list messages
>>  http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=0
>> Meetup,  PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] |
>>  [address removed]
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Please Note: If you hit  "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list  ([address removed])
> http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/
> This  message was sent by Linas K Muliolis ([address removed]) from The Cleveland  Freethinkers.
> To learn more about Linas K Muliolis, visit his/her member  profile: http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/members/49328512/
> Set  my mailing list to email me
>
> As they are  sent
> http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=1
>
> In  one daily  email
> http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=2
>
> Don't  send me mailing list  messages
> http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=0
> Meetup,  PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] |  [address removed]
>
>




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/
This message was sent by Greg Priddy ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Greg Priddy, visit his/her member profile: http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/members/14163381/
Set my mailing list to email me

As they are sent
http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=1

In one daily email
http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=2

Don't send me mailing list messages
http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/list_prefs/?pref=0
Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]







--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Randy Pelton ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Randy Pelton, visit his/her member profile





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by TC3 ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about TC3, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]






--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Randy Pelton ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Randy Pelton, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]

Our Sponsors

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy