Re: Re: [humanism-174] Fwd: Bogus Louisiana Teacher Survey Used to Support Centr...

From: Tim C.
Sent on: Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:11 PM
Ghosts, russell? Really? Thanks for your posts. You're pretty clueless even by troll standards.



-----Original Message-----
From: [address removed]
To: humanism-174 <[address removed]>
Sent: Sun, Jan 27,[masked]:06 pm
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Fwd: Bogus Louisiana Teacher Survey Used to Support Centr...

Russell,

"While I’m right here,  it occurs to me that the whole thing about whether God exists is rather more of a colossal obfuscation of the more important questions like: will we have any consciousness  after death?   if there is a heaven and hell,  is there really a way to ensure one’s soul goes to the preferred place –   does it help to place one’s trust in another mere mortal to give the correct instructions on how to get to the preferred place?" 

These are questions that are irrelevant in the absence of the question of whether or not there is a God. For example, the whole concept of Heaven and Hell is tied to the concept of God, whether it be the ancient Gods of Greece or the christian God of the present time. I think you clearly have not thought very deeply about these matters. I have a feeling you are out of your league here.

Much of the rest of your comment struck me as an incoherent rant.

"Now just for fun,  for all those here who are sure there is no afterlife,  no soul/ spirit/ spirit realm of any kind -   how do you explain the cause( s) for um, .... ghosts."

Ghosts? Seriously? Go get some learning in science and then come back and talk to us.

On the other hand, if this is just some attempt on your part to intentionally poke the hornets nest or generate some conversation for some private giggles on your part and you don't actually believe in ghosts, then stop being an irritating little troll. Grow up!

Randy


From: Russell Stanton <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Fwd: Bogus Louisiana Teacher Survey Used to Support Centr...

Hmmmm  -  I suspect here that my attempt at sarcasm got missed somehow.    One point I was trying to make is that you can’t proove to everyone’s satisfaction,  who (or Who) or what caused much of anything Creationwize.  Incidentally,  since you are so smart,  I have to wonder why you try so hard to prove things to people who will probably never accept your proof,  especially when there are  several very urgent, “life and death” questions for us figure out (but more about them later maybe).    Now I can’t help but remember a woman I endedup going with for 1 date,  who asked  “Can’t anything just happen with no cause?”   .....     ..........I still wonder if she had any idea what a provocative question that was.   Scientists are pritty good at finding causes for things,  but if they go far enough down the rabbit hole they’ll allways get to a place where they CAN’T say  what caused something.     THEN  what’s a good compliant scientist to do?    (just throwing that one to y’all)                                                                                                                                                                 ;                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   & nbsp;                     While I’m right here,  it occurs to me that the whole thing about whether God exists is rather more of a colossal obfuscation of the more important questions like: will we have any consciousness  after death?   if there is a heaven and hell,  is there really a way to ensure one’s soul goes to the preferred place –   does it help to place one’s trust in another mere mortal to give the correct instructions on how to get to the preferred place?   how much is the least amount of MONEY  one needs to pay to receive those correct instructions?      .......Well this list could go on considerably longer,  but my main point  is that  whether or not God exists is not the most important part.   And the one question I have for anyone who believes there is an afterlife,  is why not try more to make THIS world  more like the heaven you want to see -  while the thing I like to bug Christians with is,  what do you think is the most important thing that JC wanted us to learn.     Things like that can be kind of CONSTRUCTIVE sometimes.    Now just for fun,  for all those here who are sure there is no afterlife,  no soul/ spirit/ spirit realm of any kind -   how do you explain the cause( s) for um, .... ghosts ????                                                                                                                                                                 ;                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Out of time for any more of this right now,                                                                                                                                                                &nb sp;                                                                                                                                                                &nbs p;                                                                                                                                                                  ;                                                                                                     rus    
 
From: Tim Campbell
Sent: Sunday, January 27,[masked]:04 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Fwd: Bogus Louisiana Teacher Survey Used to Support Centr...
 
If you attended a science class in Lousiana or in any state or country in which reality is ignored in favor of superstition, or if you watched or read any of the theological porn that emanates from creationist circles, you would never ask such a question. 
 
Tim Campbell
 
In a message dated 1/27/2013 1:17:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [address removed] writes:
But why is it worth all of this to prove whether God created the first humans in a single day (or week or whatever),   or if He (or She or They)  did it with small changes over millions of years?  There are so many IMPORTANT  things we should be discussing!
 
From: TC3
Sent: Sunday, January 27,[masked]:29 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: Re: [humanism-174] Fwd: Bogus Louisiana Teacher Survey Used to Support Centr...
 
The part where you mentioned this quote

"Postmodernism takes the relativistic position that there is no absolute truth or objective reality, that what we experience as reality is a social construct... that it consists only of our interpretations of what the world means to us individually.."

I wonder, would you watch this and share your opinion on the content?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaV-GeAPSlE




On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Glen <[address removed]> wrote:
Mark O,
I have to agree with Tim. Your continual contrarianism and semantic quibbles are getting tiresome.  Often when asked direct questions, we get evasions or hair splitting replies of direct answers.

When Chris suggested you must have some believe in one or the other view of origins, you replied "No, I really don't, postmodernism describes my philosophical bent perfectly." Since not everyone agrees on exactly what postmodernism entails, or would know how you apply it to human evolution, your answer seems vague at best.  Part of the Wikipedia description of postmodernism is: "Postmodernism takes the relativistic position that there is no absolute truth or objective reality, that what we experience as reality is a social construct... that it consists only of our interpretations of what the world means to us individually.."

Do you subscribe to this?  Do you question any objective reality? If that's the case, I for one am not sure it's even worth discussing further with you, or talking about fossils, DNA, etc. which to me and most others, have objective reality and meaning.  If they do to you too, please be more direct and plain about what you believe about human evolution. It seems like getting that has been like pulling teeth.
    In a recent comment you suggests it's not a fact until it's "established." But we've already explained several times how and why human evolution IS well established (from extensive fossil and DNA evidence) even tho the exact status of various hominids is less certain. Do you not grasp or accept that distinction? Frankly, it appears that you just want to be contrary or play word games, rather than trying to have a productive discussion or understand the evidence.

As a case in point, when I pointed everyone to the recent Australoputhecine find, you went on about how it's not necessarily in direct line with humans. But I never claimed it was, and whether it is or not is a side issue. The key point is, it's yet another example of a hominid with features intermediate between modern humans and earlier forms, and such beings make no sense except in light of evolution (whatever their position in the ancestral bush).  Again you avoided directly answering the question I asked twice before: if none of the hominids are human ancestors, what are you suggesting, that God planted them, or created them to fool us into thinking we evolved, when in fact he directly created us?  Please be plain.

Let me take this approach, which might cut through quibbles about the word "fact". Assuming you've read some of the resources we've already directed you on human evolution, please tells us how certain you are that humans evolved, and why.  Is it 50%, 75%, 90% or what? Virtually all scientists except YECs are more than 99% certainty, which is why they also regard it as a fact, as much as anything can be a scientific fact. If after all the reading you still can't or won't say how certain you are, I think it's time to move on to another subject.

As far as your comment about divine creation not excluding evolution, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and grant that you may have meant that even if evolution occurred, a divine being or force could have initiated or guided the process. Fine, but that doesn't address the question of whether you think evolution occurred or not.
Thank you.





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