Re: Re: [humanism-174] "The Bible" on History Channel

From: TC3
Sent on: Saturday, April 6, 2013 2:13 AM


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Tim Campbell <[address removed]> wrote:
You are the one who conjectured an implausible and absurd scenario without evidence that had no discernible connection, no possible link to the actual events, and virtually no imaginable way to accomplish in secrecy, and no reason to have kept the planning process secret absent any link to any group planning a future attack.

Don't worry about ME reading your absurdities mr orel. Try reading them yourself.




-----Original Message-----
From: [address removed]
To: humanism-174
Sent: Wed, Apr 3,[masked]:06 pm
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] "The Bible" on History Channel

Mr. Campbell: 

How dense are can you be?   Yes, It is all conjecture, all
speculation
.  That is what I've been saying all along. 
All I have to go on is the visual evidence of what happened
that day.   All I have are questions. 

You say you like science and the scientific method, show  me
the evidence that you are basing your opinion upon.  As I said
many times I would be happy to be completely wrong.  I would
love to know that our government agencies did there due diligence. 

If you are going to comment on what I write, then please have
the common decency to at least read the words I've written. 


M. Orel



On[masked]:38, Tim Campbell wrote:
My statement may have been too simple for you to understand.
 
YOU are the one conjecturing, offering an implausible and unsubstantiated scenario that would necessarily involve hundreds of people "in the know" all kept secret for no plausible reason.
 
1)  If there was no connection between NYPA and Al-Quaeda and there has been zero evidence shown for such a connection, then IF NYPA was considering or planning to demolish any of the WTC buildings, the process for such an action would be out in the open.  Why keep something like that secret? Even if you could keep such a project secret, why?  More to the point, HOW does one keep this secret?  To even consider demolishing two the world's tallest buildings would require estimates, inspections, bids, impact statements, budgeting, next-step plans, models of the "new" WTC, and so on.  People involved by necessity, money trail, etc.  Sherlock Holmes would not be needed to uncover this "plot".
 
2)  There are 31 demolition companies listed in the Yellow Pages for the Cleveland area. I called two of them and they laughed when I asked if they would ever install explosives in an occupied building.  THIS WAS YOUR ASSERTION AND THAT OF YOUR BUDDY TC3.  An implausible and idiotic assertion.  You claim that you have experience in construction and physics and structural inspection.  Yet you have no problem blithely offering this scenario without thinking at all about the logistics.
 
3)  I will back down the second you provide a single piece of documentation that would support your scenario.  Show me a single instance in which a demo company has gone into an OCCUPIED building and planted explosives. 
 
I am not the one offering impossible scenarios. I am simply pointing out the difficulty (no, the freaking IMPOSSIBILITY) of the scenario.  And of course am questioning your lack of common sense and your claim to expertise in this field.  Would YOU go into an occupied office building in secret, plan the building's demolition in secret, and then plant explosives in secret in the building while it was still occupied?  Look at your own "alternative explanation" with even the slightest degree of common sense and awareness and if you still do not see how ludicrous it is, then you are an even bigger fool than many here have already thought.
 
Maybe you can then get this same secret demo crew to build TC3's 500 million mile hadron collider out in space so we can all fly across his imagined void into another universe or time.  Using the same secret funds of course that were used to bring down the towers in a "controlled explosion" during the middle of a surprise attack.  Good trick, but Mark, THE MATRIX was fiction.
 
Tim Campbell
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 4/3/2013 1:57:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [address removed] writes:
Mr. Campbell: 


You make a misstatement, I point it out, you see it and
correct it. I complement you for doing this and then you
deny the whole thing.  And then you complement me for my
mind, talk about cognitive bias, your not preforming mental
judo, you are a mental pretzel.  But we still love you anyway. 

To speculate, is to think about the various aspects of a given
subject; meditate; ponder; esp., to conjecture. 

Conjecture, an inferring, theorizing, or predicting from incomplete
or uncertain evidence; guesswork. 

Now, if you have evidence, that shows my speculation to be wrong
please share it.  I would be very happy to know that I am wrong. 
Nothing would make me happier to know that our government
agencies did there do diligence, took evidence and fully examined
it.  Otherwise my speculation is as good as any other for it is all
only speculation. 

And really, get yourself a better dictionary or perhaps it's just a matter
of using at the one you have? 


M. Orel 


On[masked]:23, Tim Campbell wrote:
 
 
In a message dated 4/2/2013 2:42:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [address removed] writes:
Mr. Campbell:

You saw the folly in your statement and corrected,
good job. 
There was no folly in my statement. It was a simple statement of fact.  The towers would still be standing had they not been attacked.  Perhaps my statement was just too simple for your complex mind. 


Okay, in my speculation the buildings were being
prepared for demolition.  
By who?  Who hired them? Who paid them? How many people involved who NEVER STEPPED FORWARD after the collpase.
Explosives are set.
By who?  When?  IN AN OCCUPIED BUILDING??????  Please show a single instance in this country in which an occupied building is prepped with explosives for demo while occupied. 

Because the N.Y.P.A. wants to do this with minimum
input by the public. 
Minimum?  Seriously?  How abut ZERO.  One call to one newspaper or TV station and we have Channel whatever shooting footage of explosives wrapped around a pillar five feet from where Heather is typing.
But the Port Authority doesn't count
on an attack by Al-Qaeda.  The buildings begin to topple.
In order to minimize the damage and loss of life, the
order is given to set of the charges causing the buildings
to implode into there foot print.
Who decided that the buildings were going to fall and how does that person coordinate with the person who could detonate these explosives?  And how do these explosives get detonated.  Wireless is unreliable.  And hard wire would be visible and subject to being severed by the aircraft.


Al-Qaeda is just an unfortunate coincidence.  
Unfortunate? Interesting word.


This is one speculation given the visual record. 
Given the visual record? This is a scenario that wouldn't make it on CASTLE let alone in the real world.
What does
the forensic evidence support, I don't know, I haven't seen it. 
Quite the stretch.  In fact, absurd even for you.
 
The proposition is silly and the execution of such a project within a project impossible to keep secret for  number of obvious reasons:
 
1)  NYPA is actually a committee of 12 individuals, appointed by the governors of two separate states. EVERYTHING they do is subject to political review by both governors. 
 
2) ANY consideration to demolishing or remodeling or even painting the bathrooms have to go through these individuals in either open meetings (secret is possible, but with 12 people and two governors, not very likely for anything bigger than determining the color of the bathrooms).  12 plus 2 governors equals 14 individuals of varying degrees of trust and agendas.  Why keep such considerations private?  The world would pretty much know if any such pre 9/11 consideration was occurring. 
 
3)  No demolition company in the world would begin setting explosives into place in a building that is occupied, no matter how low the occupancy percentage was. What about competition for the job? Bids?  
 
4)  No demo company's insurance company would back such an operation. No political appointee or appointee group would attempt to implement such an operation without an enormous amount of public support.  AND NOBODY WOULD GIVE THE GO AHEAD TO DO THE WORK WHILE THE BUILDINGS ARE STILL OCCUPIED!
 
5)  No business or its employees would sit still while explosives were being planted on EVERY floor of their office building.  Now you have 14 people PLUS all of the employees of a mythical demo company PLUS the 30,000 or so people working in the building while explosives are being planted (assertions that these mythical explosives were planted while the building was being constructed are even more absurd.  Requires even more mythical people to be involved.
 
6)  Making the decision and activating mythical explosives within a 40-60 minute timetable, with hundreds of rescue workers still inside is equally absurd.  This would require certain knowledge that the collapse was imminent, and that would require an inspection and a decision to be made by people who would be unlikely to be available through that chaos in order to make such a decision. Absurd even for you, Mark.
 
7)  Most normal people work for a paycheck. That means that someone has to pay them for their work.  There are a number of demo companies in the NYC area,in fact in the U.S.  Who pays them to install explosives and who pays them to not point this out, and who prevents there from being any sort of paper trail that would be snagged by investigators from a number of separate agencies?  To prepare buildings this size would require an enormous crew of demo people ALL OF WHOM WOULD THEN HAVE TO BE IN ON THE CONSPIRACY OR MADE TO KEEP SILENT.  Dozens? Hundreds? 
 
8)  Why not posit space aliens, Jimmy Dimora, or Tc3's occult nonsense?  Or just back up and admit that your proposition is much more absurd and unlikely than the scenario offered by the NIST report.
 
9)  Or maybe just admit that the real world isn't your cup of tea and that this particular event just is not an event you are qualified to think about.  Of course, I would speculate (and if you can, I can) that this is all a coverup for a conspiracy involving you and Tc3.  Tc3 planted the explosives in secret at night after using sleeping gas on the security people and you detonated them using the powers of your mind and rubbing a small crystal ball that had been given to you by the impish and very evil O'Rourke, King of the Leprechauns. 
 
Conclusion:  There is a lot that we the civilian populace do not know about 9/11--the events leading up to and those afterward.  FBI ignoring Islamic pukes taking jumbo jet flying lessons, Lax security at Logan, the Bush/Cheney use of 9/11 to kickstart an unrelated war. And so on.  THESE are issues that need to be examined.  Loons proposing absurd explanations and impossible and highly unsubstantiated scenarios based on their own paranoia and complete lack of knowledge about the real world do not help at all.
 
Stick with your bible studies, Mark.  This isn't your ballgame.
 
Tim Campbell




M. Orel  
 


On [masked]:10, Tim Campbell wrote:
What exactly is illogical or irrational about my statement?  Perhaps I should amend it by stating that the towers would MOST LIKELY still be standing today had they not been struck by passenger aircraft that had been hijacked by Al-Quaeda loons. I won't dignify these gutter people by calling them "operatives".
 
Of course I am presuming that the NYPA would not have hired Mafia goons or SPECTRE or THRUSH to sneak in and blow them up at another time, in order to make way for a "new skyline" as you so absurdly stated in another of your "geee why don't they bring me ALL the evidence; they must be hiding something if they don't show MEEEEEEE everything" posts.
 
YOU made two statements that had no evidentiary or logical connection with each other and have refused to justify them.  If that was your idea of an alternative explanation, then perhaps aliens from outer space conspiring with NYC cab drivers to make new city routes available might work also.
 
 





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