Re: [humanism-174] Hyper-Black Hole spawned Universe?

From: Tim C.
Sent on: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 9:19 PM
True. Even the physicists I have spoken with have either disowned ST or back away quietly as if from a sleeping skunk!  One has spent two separate stints working on it and finally gave up saying that it won't be resolved or confirmed during his lifetime!  Lots of math, no hard evidence!  And of course, appealing to extra dimensions smacks a bit of Turtle Theory!  They need a bunch of invisible dimensions; fine, I just need a bunch of turtles!  (though to be fair, there IS math behind the ST; none behind TT!)
 
This is btw, one of those things that both excites and frustrates. The fundaloons read little snippet about this stuff and conclude/argue that obviously scientists don't know what they're talking about.  The loons don't understand--or want to understand--the difference between hypothesis and theory--and Wild Idea.  To me, it is exciting that physicists ARE exploring the edge of the envelope and it is truly cool that the edge is so far out (if the Church had its way, the "edge" would be the debate over how the sun manages to orbit the earth!). 
 
The loons do not see how much work has gone into the field so that Wild Ideas COULD be proposed.  String theory, multi-verse, extra dimensions, black holes, Big Bang, Cosmic Microwave Background, Higgs Boson, Standard Model of Particle Physics, Beyond the Standard Model. Voyager, Curiosity, Opportunity, Apollo, ISS, Hubble, Kepler.  Vaccination, Germ theory, Evolutionary biology, DNA, RNA.  13.8 BILLION years of cosmic evolution, 3.5 billion years on this planet of biological evolution.  Infant mortality rate in 1860 was better than 20%; today in U.S. less than 1% (appr 5.9 per 1000). All due to the development and evolution of modern science!
 
 Incredibly, these and a kazillion other developments are being worked on and discussed by a species that just a thousand years ago did not understand rain, disease, volcanoes, or the movement of planets. And did not even know that galaxies existed! 
 
We live in the best of times and the worst of times!
 
Tim Campbell
 
In a message dated 9/17/2013 8:20:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [address removed] writes:
Agree with all you have said, especially the so-called string theory. I try to avoid calling it by that name. It is at best a hypothesis. I don't think this idea justifiably deserves to be called a theory.

Randy


From: Tim Campbell <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17,[masked]:30 PM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Hyper-Black Hole spawned Universe?

I agree.  Of course, the multi-verse is in the same category in that it is not testable at this time either.  However, the multi-verse does not seek to replace the BB, whereas this 4-D star hypothesis does!  Or rather, 4-D is an attempt to eliminate the need for Inflation, which to many physicists has the air of a convenient rather than observed way of explaining the Universe's uniformity.  But yes, needs to be testable.  And equally important, needs an explanation for the existence of the 4-D star AND the Black Hole!  THOSE entities require the existence of their own universe in which THEY could develop and exist! 
 
btw, I have equal difficulty with string theory, which requires a whole bunch of exotic dimensions in order to work!
 
T
 
In a message dated 9/17/2013 4:01:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [address removed] writes:
Interesting idea. But where's the beef? A hypothesis such as the one presented in this article may make for interesting and speculative conversation. But until it is actually tested and and confirmatory evidence results from this testing, the hypothesis is no better than imaginative speculation. No where in the article was there any mention of how this particular hypothesis might be tested. 

Furthermore, if this idea is to replace Big Bang Theory, it must not only answer all the questions answered by Big Bang Theory and explain what Big Bang cosmology explains, but it must have greater explanatory power. It must explain at least some of that which is not explained by Big Bang Theory. To become a theory and consign Big Bang Theory to the theory graveyard, this 4-D star idea must make testable predictions that are then confirmed. Big Bang Theory has done this. Until the 4-D star proposal clears these hurdles, I will be happy to entertain it as speculation. But at present I don't think it is particularly close to replacing Big Bang Theory. It is not yet ready to be a contender for the title.

Randy


From: Tim Campbell <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17,[masked]:14 PM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Hyper-Black Hole spawned Universe?

As always, wild ideas are welcome, but they DO have to stand the test of experiment and observation.  So far, Big Bang and Inflation have done a good job of passing those tests that we are capable of performing.  But who knows?!!  
 
Of course, this particular hypothesis--like the god stories--pushes the question back one step: how did the four-dimension star form and from what, and how did the black hole that ate it form? Both the star and the black hole imply the existence of another universe that then gives birth to us.  This becomes somewhat similar to the multi-verse hypothesis. 
 
I still go with turtles all the way down! lol
Tim
 
In a message dated 9/17/[masked]:27:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [address removed] writes:
A bizarre new hypothesis, perhaps possible? But requires the existence of 4-dimensional stars-




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