Re: [humanism-174] definitions of freethinker

From: ken
Sent on: Friday, August 10, 2007 1:44 PM
Todd,

I largely agree with you here.  Misquoting a bit, it's said, 'Judge the
sin, not the sinner.'  Frankly, I don't even hate W or CD.  They're just
(mentally) little boys who happen to be in positions of sufficient power
which allow them to ruin an otherwise pretty good county.  You and I
probably will have some disagreements over some of the other persons and
organizations you mention... in varying degrees.  That would require
several long conversations though-- too much for an email conversation.

"New Age" seems like one of those terms which is more like a Rorschach
inkblot than a well defined concept:  Everybody can see something
different in it.  Personally, I've never seen any conspiracy behind it,
nor have I ever talked to anyone or read anything that suggested
something conspiratorial in it.  So I have to ask, where or how did you
came to this belief about it?


On 08/10/2007 12:16 AM somebody named Todd Maher wrote:
> I try not to judge people. Only those that deserve it, such as, traitors
> to our nation (George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, the Ford
> Foundation, Planned Parenthood, David Rockefeller, the Rothschild
> family, Anti-Defamation League, feminazis, the Clintons, all CFR
> members, al Trilateralists, the Bohemian Grove members, Rudy Ghouliani,
> everyone in Progress for a New American Century,... ) ok, I could go on,
> but I will be typing til dawn... I prefer not to judge anyone's
> religion, since that is a deeply personal matter and I don't get much
> joy out of it. However, I will give a small dissertation against the
> "new age" movement:
> 
> The supposed "new age" movement of earth worship and the such is not
> "new age" at all. Most of these pagan rituals can be traced back to the
> practices of many years ago. The teachers in public schools will be
> quick to scream "separation of church and state", when in fact, when
> they talk about new ageism, this is just as much a church of the early
> pagans as any. I worry that the world will eventually be led to believe
> that "new age" is the answer, as has been suggested by the current pope
> of the catholic church. This new "one religion" for the world will
> disallow us to have varying belief systems and will force citizens to
> believe something they wish not to. From there, God worship will be
> replaced with  Government worship. (if you feel this is far fetched,
> engage in a conversation with anyone from the former Soviet Union,
> Hungary after WWII, or the Eastern block of Poland up to about 10 years
> ago). This has happened in those countries which led to great suffering,
> starvation and death. God protects us even if we don't believe in him.
> For if there is God to worship, that allows us to fight for rights that
> government can never take away. Ok, I'm rambling.... Thanks, guys. I
> might try to find a more fitting group, but I really like you guys, so I
> might tough it out.:)
> 
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Marni Tiborsky
>     Sent: Aug 10, 2007 12:00 AM
>     To: [address removed]
>     Subject: RE: [humanism-174] definitions of freethinker
> 
>     Well, definition # 4 does go beyond religion and includes the other
>     ���great unspeakable���, politics. In everything BUT religion you are
>     indeed a Freethinker, my friend. Being as it that many others in the
>     group are religious infidels, I worry that you may perceive every
>     barb we toss at religion as a personal barb aimed at you; this is
>     NOT the case. And there will be barbs tossed in that area. But Todd,
>     go ahead and toss one, if you like, at us Atheists & such! It���s
>     cool��� we can take it!
> 
>     MARK
> 
>      
> 
>     --------------------­--------------------­--------------------­------------
> 
>     *From:* [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] *On
>     Behalf Of *Todd Maher
>     *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:42 PM
>     *To:* [address removed]
>     *Subject:* Re: [humanism-174] definitions of freethinker
> 
>      
> 
>     Does it have to be religious? Free thinkers I thought, were just as
>     the words state. Free thinkers are free to think whatever they wish,
>     host their own opinions, possibly change them, keep some, but learn
>     together. The religion part is the least interesting to me. I am a
>     free thinker when it comes to corruption, current events and
>     coincidences. The religion thing will never be solved, since we will
>     never know everything and we are entrusting our opinions in people,
>     be it scientists, to use a set of methods that we constructed, to
>     explain the world. I'd rather bitch about politics and conspiracy.
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Marni Tiborsky
>     Sent: Aug 9, 2007 11:38 PM
>     To: [address removed]
>     Subject: [humanism-174] definitions of freethinker
> 
> 
>     Hey all,
> 
>     At our July meetup, we briefly discussed finding a definition of
>     ���Freethinker��� that would best suit our group.
> 
>      
> 
>     Webster���s New World Dictionary, 1990 Edition: ���One who forms his
>     opinions about religion independently.��� (a little vague, maybe?)
> 
>      
> 
>     Here���s a better one: *freethinker* n. One who has rejected authority
>     and dogma, especially in his religious thinking, in favor of
>     rational inquiry and speculation.
> 
>     -The American Heritage Dictionary
> 
>      
> 
>     And another, from Merriam-Webster online:
> 
>     one who forms opinions on the basis of reason independently of
>     authority; /especially/ **:** one who doubts or denies religious dogma
> 
>      
> 
>     But wait, there���s this also, from Cambridge online: someone who
>     forms their own opinions and beliefs, especially about religion or
>     politics, rather than just accepting what is officially or commonly
>     believed and taught
> 
>      
> 
>     And then there���s good ol��� wiki: *Freethought* is a philosophical
>     <http://en.wikiped...;­ viewpoint that holds that
>     beliefs <http://en.wikiped...;­ should be formed on
>     the basis of science <http://en.wikiped...;­ and
>     logical <http://en.wikiped...;­ principles and not be
>     compromised by authority <http://en.wikiped...;­,
>     tradition <http://en.wikiped...;­, or any other
>     dogma <http://en.wikiped...;­. The cognitive
>     application of freethought is known as /freethinking/, and
>     practitioners of freethought are known as /freethinkers/
> 
>     / /
> 
>     ???
> 
>     MARK
> 
>      
> 
> 
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> "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."   -Mark Twain, 1904
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