Re: excess value (was: Re: [humanism-174] Science and Theories)

From: ken
Sent on: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:53 PM
I don't disagree with your statements below about transactions.  The
point is, though, that employers make money off the work of their
employees.  This amount that the employers make is referred to in
Marxism is excess value (or, as said, surplus value or value added).
Are you disagreeing with that?

On 08/14/[masked]:29 PM somebody named chris wrote:
>  Ken,
> 
>  The value of an object is exactly what each person assigns it. If you
> pay Barbera $200 an hour and she accepts it,than she'd rather work for
> $200 an hour an any other option she has available. If I'm willing to
> pay $300 an hour for Barbera to put in a new sink,than I value her
> skills and ability to put in a new sink than I do the $300 or anything
> else I can do with that money. 
> 
>  Every transaction is essentally a trading of inequalities,I value what
> you have to offer more than what I'm offerng in return. You value what
> I'm offering  more than you value holding on to your product or service.
> If we didn't there would be no trade.
> 
>  I don't really care what a few thousand economists in Europe or North
> America believe. Especially since economists have endorsed
> mercantillism,fascis­m,nazism,and other forms of collectivism.
> 
> On Tue,[masked] at 13:57 -0400, ken wrote:
> 
>>
>>> The whole concept is a sham,one might as well discuss the
>>> concept of the ether on fertility rates on uncorns and manticores. 
>> Strange you should say that.  If I own a plumbing company and have to
>> send out one of two people on a job for which I, as the owner of the
>> business, will make $300 an hour; and Barbara costs me $200 per hour
>> (giving me $100/hour in excess value) and Ann costs me $150 an hour
>> (giving me $150/hour in excess value), I think this would be good
>> information to have.
>>
>> The same concept can be applied and the same simple calculations can--
>> and should- be done on the cost of automating part of a production
>> process prior to purchasing such technology.
>>
>> As hinted at above, excess value is the basis of the value-added tax, or
>> VAT, in Britain and in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and other European
>> countries.  In fact, in German-speaking countries it's known as the
>> "Mehrwertsteuer", literally "excess value tax", adopting Marx's
>> terminology unaltered.
>>
>> Chris, if I weigh your opinion of the usefulness of the concept of
>> excess value against the thousands or millions of professional
>> economists in Europe, who obviously believe it is useful (since they use
>> it as a basis for their system of taxation), sorry, but I have to come
>> down on the side of all the European economists.  If you can back up
>> your statement that it's a sham, you should write up and publish a paper
>> on it.  You'd undoubtedly get a Nobel Prize in Economics.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Tue,[masked] at 09:35 -0400, ken wrote:
>>>> Chris,
>>>>
>>>> You've made some true statements, but what we're asking after is the
>>>> meaning of excess value... and then what role does it play in four
>>>> different kinds of economies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/14/[masked]:50 AM somebody named chris wrote:
>>>>>­  Ken,
>>>>>­
>>>>>­   THought there was only three,according to Marxist theory.
>>>>>­  1) Slavery-work for free
>>>>>­  2)Appropiated goods,as in feudal rents
>>>>>­  3)Money-which gets into the Classical Labor Value Theory,which is not a
>>>>>­ Marxist idea originally. THe whole school of classical econmics was
>>>>>­ buggered about the origins of value. 
>>>>>­  Well,except for a spainard named Juan de Mariana and others
>>>>>­ from,IRCC,Salmanaca.­ THey were quite aware that all value was subjective
>>>>>­ and that nothing had any intristic value. The only value that anything
>>>>>­ had was what men assignd to it.
>>>>>­ On Mon,[masked] at 17:16 -0400, ken wrote:
>>>>>­> Todd,
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­    If you want to show you have even a rudimentary understanding of
>>>>>­> communism, explain and contrast the varying roles of excess value in
>>>>>­> four economic systems.  I'll be waiting.
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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