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Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

From: An Unknown K.
Sent on: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:58 AM
Who would it be harming?

Sent on the Now Network��� from my Sprint�� BlackBerry


From: Ann <[address removed]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:50:07 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: RE: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

Let's say I forgot to take my birthcontrol pill in the morning, I have sex, is it immoral to take the morning after pill that night?
 

To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?
From: [address removed]
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:46:57 -0400

The ability to reason, the ability exist outside the womb. We are able to define the difference between non-life and life. Is it a rock or is it an embryo? I suppose I could test that empirically. Are you saying you need clear definition to distinguish between life and non life because if so most people can do that quite easily. A zygote does not and should not trump a real, living, breathing, thinking woman with self-derived purpose, goals, thoughts and desires Sent on the Now Network��� from my Sprint�� BlackBerry

From: MichaelV
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:40:36 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?


Not all clumps are created equal.  If you fail to make a distinction between life and non-life, and then human or non-human, you will fall into a redundant cycle in which you are unable to define any life as having worth.  The only way we can appropriately grant any life meaning is to grant all human life equality, from an inseminated egg two days after sex to a 90 year old invalid; the necessity of equality is what allows for a civil society to function. 

Michael


From: Michael <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 19,[masked]:15:48 AM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

How is a clump of cells a life? Because the brain of a fly contains more cells than a zygote yet we swat them all the time. Can it think, can it reason? No because it has no neurons to do so OR feel pain. But a woman does and her right to have control over her own body should not be subjects to someone else "feelings". Sent on the Now Network��� from my Sprint�� BlackBerry


From: MichaelV
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:09:19 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

Abortion is the termination of a human life; anytime a person takes another persons life outside of reasonable or expected circumstances, it is immoral.  I think that there are only a few extremely rare instances in which it would be moral; in the case of some abortions, while I wouldn't call it immoral, we must still acknowledge that abortion is taking a human life.  Doing so as a form of birth control is always immoral.  That's what I mean when I say compassion vs. convenience; abortion influenced by undesirable, unforeseeable, or unintended circumstances for either party is not moral, but it is not immoral. 

Could you clarify what you mean in your second statement?  Do you mean to say that if a person finds a baby inconvenient for them, or for the baby, or for both, or for some other party?  And if you are saying that abortion may be justified out of an issue of convenience for the parent/s, then there are only two ways of looking at it; if the parent/s took appropriate measures in order to avoid getting pregnant, but it still happened, then I consider it wrong and immoral, but only very slightly; if you are suggesting that they did not take appropriate precautions, then they are committing an act of murder- a barbaric one at that, as we have defined it in our message boards on the topic.

I absolutely disagree with your last statement.

Michael

From: Ginger <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 19,[masked]:38:56 AM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?


I think relying on abortion as a primary source of birth control is stupid, but not immoral. If you think it is immoral, please explain why.

As for convenience you are implying that if a person finds having a baby "inconvenient" that they are not making the decision out of compassion to the baby. I argue yes they are, in addition to convenience to themselves, which must be part of the equation.

All in all, I don't find any moral problem with abortion for any reason with or without apology. If the embryo/fetus is far along that it may feel pain, administer pain relief. If something has no sense of future, then I don't feel it's morally wrong to kill it.

--- On Fri, 6/19/09, MichaelV <[address removed]> wrote:

> From: MichaelV <[address removed]>
> Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?
> To: [address removed]
> Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 10:06 AM
> Not to pry too deeply, but I
> assume you do use at least one form of birth control when
> necessary? 
>
> And I think that the convenience factor must necessarily be
> distinct from the compassion factor: I used that term like
> many pro-lifers tend to use it: as a pejorative.
>
> Michael




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