Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

From: Miguel
Sent on: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:00 PM
The moment it is able to survive outside the mothers womb which is why late term abortions are so troublesome though they are only done to save the life of the mother, or if the baby is damaged that to give birth would be more cruel than terminating it.

Sent on the Now Network��� from my Sprint�� BlackBerry


From: Ann <[address removed]>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:50:34 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: RE: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

(weeks in terms of last period date)
If the "baby" is less than 8weeks old- do u consider that an abortion?
What about 12 weeks?
And 16 weeks?
 

From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Subject: RE: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:42:34 -0400

What if the woman is mentally handicapped?
 
So when does this "baby" become classified as a ""baby"?

 

From: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?
To: [address removed]
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:29:08 -0400

Because it's his baby!  The moment she spreads her legs, knowing what the consequences may be, she loses all right to control everything about her pregnancy.  If a woman doesn't want to be put in this situation, she has options.  Opt out of those, and she now has the responsibility to keep the father a part of that pregnancy.

If he offers support, and she says no, then for the duration of the pregnancy she is under no obligation to accept it...unless the child's life in endangered. 

It isn't an issue of her body.  I'm not talking about her toe here.  I'm talking about HUMAN BEINGS, and the process by which we come into this world.  It's the only thing I can think of that approaches the definition of the word sacred.  It is a big freaking deal. 

This is what I mean by convenience.  No moral person would ever consider abortion to be simply about what a woman does with her body; if they do, then they have a deranged understanding of reproduction and morality.

Oh, my penis is legislated against morally.  I cannot put it wherever I want; I cannot show it to whomever I want; I cannot even cut it off without the state taking action against me (assuming they find out).  Plus, a doctor has a morally driven right to cut part of it off without informing my parents.

Michael


From: Michael <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 19,[masked]:18:28 PM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

You're thinking in absolutes. What if it was a one night stand? Friends with benefits? Ex-husband? And who says that he has to provide for if she doesn't wish it? Why does she HAVE to tell him especially if it's an unwanted complication? Where is your reasoning coming from? How do you infer moral truths out of the autonomy a woman has over her body? You would balk if someone tried to legislate morality based on your penis (other than rape of course) Sent on the Now Network��� from my Sprint�� BlackBerry


From: MichaelV
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:13:26 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

Yes.  There is absolutely no excuse not to tell the father when the sex was consensual.  The mother is morally obligated from the moment she learns she is pregnant, just as the father is morally obligated to assist and provide for her during the pregnancy.

Michael 



From: Ed <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 19,[masked]:05:12 PM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

A similar question from a different angle - If a 2 months pregnant woman visits her doctor and she finds out her fetus will likely be stillborn does she have an obligation to tell the father?

To me there seems to be some point where the mother is morally obligated to the father in her decisions.

Does a woman after 1 week of pregnancy have a moral obligation to inform the father of her decisions? What about 1 month? What about 3 months?

MichaelV wrote:
One of the guiding principals of human civilization is that both mother and father have a claim to the child; the mother is the caretaker, the father the provider.  Just because modern society has broken this mold does not mean that it still tends to break down along similar lines.

Also, are you actually suggesting that the moment you get your girlfriend pregnant you lose all decisions as to what happens to that child?  Why?

Michael


From: Michael <[address removed]>
To:[address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 19,[masked]:48:37 AM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

Why? That makes no sense. Your argument is that he gave seed. So? I refer to my earlier point concerning internal care taking Sent on the Now Network��� from my Sprint�� BlackBerry

From: MichaelV
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:42:50 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?
Yes!  It is his child as well.  50% of that kid belongs to him.  Yes she should, she should mention it, and he has every right to try to veto her decision.

Michael


From: Ed<[address removed]>
To:[address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 19,[masked]:23:53 AM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?

Does a woman seeking an abortion have any moral obligation to the male who helped create the fetus? Should she tell him she is pregnant? Should she tell him she is having an abortion? Is it immoral not to say a word to them?

Michael wrote:
The main issue is the deception. The abortion is a red herring. The crux of it is she lied which is detrimental to human harmony ergo immoral. Sent on the Now Network��� from my Sprint�� BlackBerry

From: Ed
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:12:52 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?
Is that true for both the male and female?

For example, if a woman claims to be on the pill but really isn't and plans to just get an abortion if she gets pregnant, is that immoral? Why?

Michael wrote:
Yes because another party was deceived and the harm that could result from that deception is not acceptable. Sent on the Now Network��� from my Sprint�� BlackBerry

From: Ed
Date: Fri, 19 Jun[masked]:05:05 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience?
A couple is about to have sex. Is it immoral if either partner lies about any BC measures they are using?



Ginger wrote:
I think relying on abortion as a primary source of birth control is stupid, but not immoral. If you think it  is immoral, please explain why.  As for convenience you are implying that if a person finds having a baby "inconvenient" that they are not making the decision out of compassion to the baby. I argue yes they are, in addition to convenience to themselves, which must be part of the equation.  All in all, I don't find any moral problem with abortion for any reason with or without apology. If the embryo/fetus is far along that it may
feel pain, administer pain relief. If something has no sense of future, then I don't feel it's morally wrong to kill it. --- On Fri, 6/19/09, MichaelV <[address removed]> wrote:
From: MichaelV <[address removed]> Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Abortion: Murder, Compassion, or Convenience? To: [address removed] Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 10:06 AM Not to pry too deeply, but I assume you do use at least one form of birth
control when necessary?  And I think that the convenience factor must necessarily be distinct from the compassion factor: I used that term like many pro-lifers tend to use it: as a pejorative. Michael
    -- Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/ This message was sent by Ginger ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers. To learn more about Ginger, visit his/her member
profile: http://www.meetup.com/clevelandfreethinkers/members/3059057/ To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here: http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/ Meetup Support:
[address removed] 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ed ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Ed, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Michael, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ed ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Ed, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Michael, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ed ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Ed, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by MichaelV ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about MichaelV, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Michael, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by MichaelV ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about MichaelV, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ed ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Ed, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by MichaelV ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about MichaelV, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Michael, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by MichaelV ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about MichaelV, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA


Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that���s right for you.



--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ann ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Ann, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA


Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail��. See how.



--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ann ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Ann, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

Our Sponsors

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy