Re: [humanism-174] Re: Objectivism

From: Miguel
Sent on: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:24 PM
Speaking of Randian politics, my first encounter with a libertarian was at a cafe. A woman had made a comment about individual rights or some such and a young blond man about 22 snorted on his way out the door "That's why I'm a Libertarian." Instinctively my hackles raised and I didn't know why at the time as I only had a vague notion of what he was(I was 17 maybe) I researched them and egoistic immorality appalled me. I can dig the personal autonomy, that's wonderful but the selfish components that are plugged into that ideal sicken me. Anti-government awesome if it wasn't for the fact that WE are the government. Anti-charity and good will well that's when expletives start flying from my mouth. My prejudice may be irrational but talking with one makes my skin crawl and I always want to punch one in the mouth. And I'm not the only atheist to feel this way, make your way to PZ Myers blog and watch the sharks devour any libertarian that dares swim in the water. It ain't pretty

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From: Mark Tiborsky <[address removed]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun[masked]:59:35 -0400
To: <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Re: Objectivism

Philosophy, or propaganda? Pretty lady, or android? From the Ayn Rand Institute:
��
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Josh <[address removed]> wrote:
"But a case could be made that Objectivism is a form of atheism
without the freethought" - Mark

That's exactly how I feel. I have a strong dislike for Objectivism,
for many of the reasons mentioned.

For those of you that have been here a while and remember the piece I
wrote a year or so ago on free market capitalism as religion
(http://clevelandfreethinkers.blogspot.com/2008/02/free-market-capitalism-as-religion.html),
much of it was a veiled attack on Objectivist philosophy, especially
my criticism of Greenspan. For the same reasons I tend to take an
almost hostile stand toward die hard Ron Paul supporters, as Paul is
also admittedly a huge Rand fan and proponent of objectivist
philosophy.

Rand was a smart lady, and I think she milked the WWII ant-communist
sentiment as much as she could in order to make herself a star. It's a
shame people today still can't see that's it's nothing more than that.

As somewhat of an altruist myself, I disagree greatly with much of her
philosophy, down to the basics. I think it was Mikkel that said that
the independence of existence and reality is an axiom of philosophy,
which is true. Philosophy does not debate this, but rather questions
how the two interact, a point that Rand completely misses. A debate on
the existence of reality is pointless without a perception of that
reality.

Rand's describes her famous "Axiom of Identity" with the quote "A leaf
cannot be both all red and all green at the same time." My response to
the objectivist is to take that leaf, red or green, to a colorblind
person and ask them if it is all red or all green.

Josh 1



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