addressalign-toparrow-leftarrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcameraccwchatcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-checkcircle-with-crosscircle-with-pluscrossdots-three-verticaleditemptyheartexporteye-with-lineeyefacebookfolderfullheartglobegmailgoogleimageimagesinstagramlinklocation-pinmagnifying-glassmailminusmoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1outlookpersonplusprice-ribbonImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartickettrashtriangle-downtriangle-uptwitteruseryahoo

Re: [humanism-174] Fox News’ “War on Christianity”: How right-wing hacks created a sect of victims

From: Susan H.
Sent on: Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:18 AM
I disagree. The Satan statue is much more than satire, and I think it sends a very strong message to people that kind of need to be made aware of the consequences of their actions.

The absolute best, and as far as I'm concerned, most constitutional course is to have a separation of church and state. There is no reason our government needs to chime in and choose a favorite religion. Well, that's not happening tomorrow, so until then, if they are going to allow some religious displays, then they must allow them all choosing no favorites.

It's really not anyone's problem if they choose to believe that satanists actually worship satan--rather than using very powerful symbols to make their point--that's their problem. A little reading, and they'd know all they want to know. What's more important is that they fully understand that they don't get to be the privileged class anymore---and if the 10 commandments are on government property then there is room for Satan to. Don't like that? NO PROBLEM--Take you filthy, dirty, immoral commandments down--you know--the ones that basically map out the reasons a person could get stoned---and they will take their Satan statue and go home.

Because as far as I'm concerned, those commandments are also full of evil, and that's actually an informed opinion and not a boo moment from Larson and TV.

In no case could I ever agree that allowing one group freedom of speech while telling another they shouldn't exercise theirs is okay.

Cheers,

Susan


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Stead <[address removed]>
To: humanism-174 <[address removed]>
Sent: Wed, Jul 30,[masked]:29 pm
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Fox News’ “War on Christianity”: How right-wing hacks created a sect of victims

The trouble is those Christians who never really saw it as privilege, and never really made use of privilege, and don't get the billions of dollars that the industry produces - they just give their money because they believe.  And they see a one-sided view of their religion being displaced in favour of, as they see it, someone elses.

That's why I'm not too keen on these displays like the Satan statue at that courthouse - we get the satire, but they see it as genuine worship of pure evil.  I'm not sure it's really helping very much.


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Sam Salerno <[address removed]> wrote:
In the end that is the fact. We are coming down on their privileging and they’re pissed about it. Oh well!

On Jul 30, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Susan H. <[address removed]> wrote:

LOL--exactly. The teacher would have to explain that it was named Christmas when Christians co-opted Saturnalia (as they co-opt everything and call it theirs), and was a effort to Christianize a ;mass of smaller pagan winter festivals that took place all over Europe for thousands of years before the birth of the man that is now being celebrated.

They also co-opted Pine trees, tinsel and reindeers.

Somebody tried to parrot FOX with me and groaned that they risked imprisonment if they even read their bible. I was absolutely floored. Somehow, while they put signs up in their windows about Christ, get tax exemption, pass churches every 2 minutes (where I live--I even went on a walk to take pictures of how many there are), living in a country that is completely decorated, shore to shore, every year for Christmas, a country where members of congress read the bible on the meeting floor and municipalities open their meetings with prayer, along with with the President's prayer breakfast and making his oath of office on a bible, and they concluded and really somehow believe, that reading the bible will get them a prison sentence.

Yes, I did point to all of this evidence to help this person reconsider their reality.

Like all things of faith, the evidence didn't make a deep impact. However, on further discussion, what they are really complaining about is that there are more outspoken people that don't agree with them. Why can't they just be quiet and toe the line?

And that's how it feels when losing privilege. It feels like persecution.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Salerno <[address removed]>
To: humanism-174 <[address removed]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 29,[masked]:14 pm
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Fox News’ “War on Christianity”: How right-wing hacks created a sect of victims

Yeah, Reagan. The one who said that “evolution is just a theory.” And of course everyone knows the reason for Christmas is the Winter Solstice.

On Jul 29, 2014, at 10:04 PM, Mark Tiborsky <[address removed]> wrote:

A reference to the "war on Christmas", 30 years ago right from the mouth of President Ronald Reagan-
"Our coins bear the words 'In God We Trust.' We take the oath of office asking his help in keeping that oath. And we proclaim that we are a Nation under God when we pledge allegiance to the flag. But we can't mention his name in a public school or even sing religious hymns that are non-denominational. Christmas can be celebrated in the school room with pine trees, tinsel and reindeers but there must be no mention of the Man whose birthday is being celebrated. One wonders how a teacher would answer if a student asked why it was called Christmas."
On Jul 29,[masked]:45 PM, "Mark Tiborsky" <[address removed]> wrote:
I would agree with the article in that FOX News types have been chief perpetuators of anti-secular hysteria in recent years, but I don't see how they "created" anything. The foundation for the conservative "godless threatening our way of life" narrative was laid long ago.
Also, perhaps the "war on Christianity" is not entirely a myth, but nor is it at all like FOX News etc portrays it. For the past decade or so there has been a concerted effort to swat down religious ideas, along with presenting the atheistic viewpoint. Not by any "secular librul conspiracy", as some claim, but rather the concerted effort has more or less self-assembled for a number of reasons (more coming "out of the closet", more opposition to govt intrusion by religion, more simply having doubts about religion, etc).
But of course, claims of persecution are a convenient way to exempt themselves from having to mount a decent argument in support of their religious ideas!




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by sheri presloid ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about sheri presloid, visit his/her member profile
To report this message or block the sender, please click here
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Mark Tiborsky ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Mark Tiborsky, visit his/her member profile
To report this message or block the sender, please click here
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Sam Salerno ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Sam Salerno, visit his/her member profile
To report this message or block the sender, please click here
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Susan H. ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Susan H., visit his/her member profile
To report this message or block the sender, please click here
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Sam Salerno ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Sam Salerno, visit his/her member profile
To report this message or block the sender, please click here
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]



--
This message caused no harm whatsoever to any trees.  However, its creation and transmission did seriously inconvenience a large number of electrons for a number of nanoseconds




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Andrew Stead ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Andrew Stead, visit his/her member profile
To report this message or block the sender, please click here
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]

Our Sponsors

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy