Re: [humanism-174] Fox News’ “War on Christianity”: How right-wing hacks created a sect of victims

From: Susan H.
Sent on: Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:27 AM
Look, if they have God's backing, they really shouldn't be concerning themselves about any war or protecting their beliefs. If God wants them to exist--they will.

The other problem is that the Bible says Jesus said that his followers would be persecuted. Not might be, but would be. One piece of evidence that a Christian is on the right path is if they are persecuted. Now, we don't actually persecute Christians in the true sense of the word---or if it happens, there are remedies. So if they want their persecution, they have to have a very sensitive button---like way sensitive---like any disargeement is that persecution that Jesus promised them bygod.

Here is how sensitive it can be---when looking for persecution. When I was a JW, I was truly in a minority class. Nobody liked us, and this included other Christians. So persecution (very mild) was kind of always around--in weird ways--but whatever. It didn't really bother me and I didn't look for remedies. I knew how weird I looked. However, it wasn't enough. While I didn't crave persecution the way others did, I did notice that they found it everywhere and it was a favorite subject---generally followed by "Jesus warned us!" etc. Very validating.

But for those that were having trouble identifying persecution----they had help. I remember one talk we had where they told us that sometimes people would tell us they would pray for us after we'd witnessed to them and they had their own religion. Happened all the time. So we were told that offering to pray for us was a form of persecution.  Yayyy---we got persecuted all the time then.

So not only do they experience this loss of privilege and they fight, but it also excites them very much because they perceive it as persecution. And for many of them, it's also proof that the end (whatever the flavor, Rapture, Armageddon--whatever) is very, very close because Jesus said to look for this persecution and hold your head up, the end is close.

It's really a well-structured system, if you think about it. They have some really good defenses for any contingency. They've had a couple thousand years to reinforce any cracks so now anything, ANYTHING that happens can confirm their bias.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Salerno <[address removed]>
To: humanism-174 <[address removed]>
Sent: Wed, Jul 30,[masked]:52 pm
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Fox News’ “War on Christianity”: How right-wing hacks created a sect of victims

I understand what you’re saying Andrew. But we are not trying to stop them from believing anything. I find that even after I point out a particular privilege( which there are many) they still don’t care. They don’t want it taken away. They like the christian American status. 

On Jul 30, 2014, at 7:29 PM, Andrew Stead <[address removed]> wrote:

The trouble is those Christians who never really saw it as privilege, and never really made use of privilege, and don't get the billions of dollars that the industry produces - they just give their money because they believe.  And they see a one-sided view of their religion being displaced in favour of, as they see it, someone elses.

That's why I'm not too keen on these displays like the Satan statue at that courthouse - we get the satire, but they see it as genuine worship of pure evil.  I'm not sure it's really helping very much.


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Sam Salerno <[address removed]> wrote:
In the end that is the fact. We are coming down on their privileging and they’re pissed about it. Oh well!

On Jul 30, 2014, at 8:45 AM, Susan H. <[address removed]> wrote:

LOL--exactly. The teacher would have to explain that it was named Christmas when Christians co-opted Saturnalia (as they co-opt everything and call it theirs), and was a effort to Christianize a ;mass of smaller pagan winter festivals that took place all over Europe for thousands of years before the birth of the man that is now being celebrated.

They also co-opted Pine trees, tinsel and reindeers.

Somebody tried to parrot FOX with me and groaned that they risked imprisonment if they even read their bible. I was absolutely floored. Somehow, while they put signs up in their windows about Christ, get tax exemption, pass churches every 2 minutes (where I live--I even went on a walk to take pictures of how many there are), living in a country that is completely decorated, shore to shore, every year for Christmas, a country where members of congress read the bible on the meeting floor and municipalities open their meetings with prayer, along with with the President's prayer breakfast and making his oath of office on a bible, and they concluded and really somehow believe, that reading the bible will get them a prison sentence.

Yes, I did point to all of this evidence to help this person reconsider their reality.

Like all things of faith, the evidence didn't make a deep impact. However, on further discussion, what they are really complaining about is that there are more outspoken people that don't agree with them. Why can't they just be quiet and toe the line?

And that's how it feels when losing privilege. It feels like persecution.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Salerno <[address removed]>
To: humanism-174 <[address removed]>
Sent: Tue, Jul 29,[masked]:14 pm
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Fox News’ “War on Christianity”: How right-wing hacks created a sect of victims

Yeah, Reagan. The one who said that “evolution is just a theory.” And of course everyone knows the reason for Christmas is the Winter Solstice.

On Jul 29, 2014, at 10:04 PM, Mark Tiborsky <[address removed]> wrote:

A reference to the "war on Christmas", 30 years ago right from the mouth of President Ronald Reagan-
"Our coins bear the words 'In God We Trust.' We take the oath of office asking his help in keeping that oath. And we proclaim that we are a Nation under God when we pledge allegiance to the flag. But we can't mention his name in a public school or even sing religious hymns that are non-denominational. Christmas can be celebrated in the school room with pine trees, tinsel and reindeers but there must be no mention of the Man whose birthday is being celebrated. One wonders how a teacher would answer if a student asked why it was called Christmas."
On Jul 29,[masked]:45 PM, "Mark Tiborsky" <[address removed]> wrote:
I would agree with the article in that FOX News types have been chief perpetuators of anti-secular hysteria in recent years, but I don't see how they "created" anything. The foundation for the conservative "godless threatening our way of life" narrative was laid long ago.
Also, perhaps the "war on Christianity" is not entirely a myth, but nor is it at all like FOX News etc portrays it. For the past decade or so there has been a concerted effort to swat down religious ideas, along with presenting the atheistic viewpoint. Not by any "secular librul conspiracy", as some claim, but rather the concerted effort has more or less self-assembled for a number of reasons (more coming "out of the closet", more opposition to govt intrusion by religion, more simply having doubts about religion, etc).
But of course, claims of persecution are a convenient way to exempt themselves from having to mount a decent argument in support of their religious ideas!




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