Re: [humanism-174] Why can't I be a "nice and quiet" atheist?

From: Gordon
Sent on: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:42 PM
I would say because most TV networks (or people) feel uncomfortable talking about the subject of religion.
I actually do talk about religion with some of my co-workers. One fellow in particular (a Christian fundalmentalist) is more than willing to discuss religion with me. And he knows that I'm an ex-Christian turned atheist.
I think we as a society assume we can't question beliefs, so we don't. In reality, I've found many believers are willing to listen and talk with you. And if we wish to criticize, then we should feel free to - though that's not generally what I do. I don't think it's usually very effective.
Gordon

--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Ginger <[address removed]> wrote:

From: Ginger <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Why can't I be a "nice and quiet" atheist?
To: [address removed]
Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 5:13 PM

Well let me ask a different question instead, why do we have all kinds of political debate shows on TV, but no religious debate shows?

--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Mark R. Orel <[address removed]> wrote:

From: Mark R. Orel <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Why can't I be a "nice and quiet" atheist?
To: [address removed]
Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 5:08 PM

Believers, nonbelievers, rational or irrational, politics or religion it does not matter. 
The premise -

I want an explanation of why someone can bring up something political and be challenged on it but not if they bring up their religious beliefs.

I believe is wrong.  It is not the subject, it is the individual.  There are no societal norms for conversation,
argument or debate.  Even if I accept that certain  points of view are discouraged within groups. 
It still comes down to the tolerance (personality) of the individual as to what s/he will or will not discuss.

The only thing that prohibits certain topics is the esteem, or lack of, that the individual will hold. 

My argument assumes freedom of speech. 

M. Orel

Don Boos wrote:
A similar subject is why do they expect non believers respect their "holy" books. They are only printed paper like any other book.


On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Mark Tiborsky <[address removed]> wrote:
Mark O.,
 
The mere mention of the name "Obama" causes an irrational negative visceral reaction in millions of Americans. While it is perfectly rational to not agree with his politics, the reasons for the visceral Obama hatred are just as irrational as any religious dogma... so I made a deal with myself to treat irrational religion & irrational politics in exactly the same way (in which neither are granted any sort of special "shield" from criticism).

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Matt <[address removed]> wrote:
That's true, Mark. But, still, that's an individual response that has more to do with a particular personality than with the subject matter. In general, even people who aren't open to discussion about their politics (tho they probably assume they are) will say that it's okay to challenge/debate someone's political beliefs. Yet many, if not most, people will say you should leave a person's religious beliefs alone: "It's their faith."
 
matt


From: Mark R. Orel <[address removed]> Sent: Monday, September 28,[masked]:34:12 AM
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] Why can't I be a "nice and quiet" atheist?

Ginger:

I disagree with your premise.  Any subject can invite a severe response if the individual is not
open to its discussion. 

As a political example, I would give you the Ralph Nader candidacy of 2004.  To this day
there are some who experience a negative visceral reaction to his name.

M. Orel


Ginger wrote:
I want an explanation of why someone can bring up something political and be challenged on it but not if they bring up their religious beliefs.

--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Michael <[address removed]> wrote:

From: Michael <[address removed]>
Subject: [humanism-174] Why can't I be a "nice and quiet" atheist?
To: [address removed]
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:38 PM

The religious always let off a moan of collected indignity when they are asked pointedly to justify their beliefs. I always hear religious people get upset about the so-called "new" atheists. There is nothing new about us, we are the same old atheists who ask "Why?" to your face instead of to each other. I tire of being told by Christians that they have atheist friends who "live and let be" who don't demand evidence. So? What's your point? I assure you that are either feeling pity for your self-delusion or laugh at your beliefs  behind your back. Should I be quiet when you say "the Bible says so" Should I pretend respect when you say 'Homosexuality is an abomination"? Should I not laugh out loud when I hear you brag about how "humble you are"? If your beliefs did not directly clash with modernity and secularism then I may live and let live. But let us not forget the legacies of ignorant, irrational beliefs and the crimes justified because of them ; Grown women dragged out their homes, beaten tortured then set on fire, they're cries of agony drowned out by the righteous jeers of the crowd, the institution of slavery, it's scars still visible to this day, the self-hatred and/or insecurity of many Western women, Palestine, 9/11, The Holocaust, the fatwah on Salman Rushdie's head for writing a fictional book about Islam (he still lives in protection). I want proof for your ridiculous certainty, that is not disrespect but honest inquiry. No belief should be safe from criticism, otherwise we would not bat an eye at racists, Holocaust deniers, UFO "abductees",  conspiracy theorists, etc. So why are yours off limits? They are just as irrational if not more so because you think they represent reality, you arrogantly belief that someone "up there" is looking out for you. How pathetically putrescent . What's more sick is that you think this was all made for you. So no, I won't be quiet, I won't stop questioning. As long as you keep that macabre representation of an execution around your neck, as long as you say "I'm blessed" (even though you're still in the same spot you were 5 years  ago), that "there is a reason for everything" then I will call you out on it.
--
"They can't see anymore how their wide eyes have made them blind in spite of themselves."-Mushroomhead




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Michael, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ginger ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Ginger, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Mark R. Orel ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Mark R. Orel, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Matt ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Matt, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Mark Tiborsky ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Mark Tiborsky, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Don Boos ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Don Boos, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Mark R. Orel ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Mark R. Orel, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ginger ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about Ginger, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup Support: [address removed]
632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

Our Sponsors

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy