RE: [humanism-174] How did our values get so confused?

From: user 2.
Sent on: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:53 AM
This is outstanding.  I agree, its way too late for some, but what continues to confuse me is why the activists against violence always seem to blame and lash out at the government and the schools...the very entities they need to be partnering with against those really at fault.  I am not just referring to parents either.  There are people at work using the inner-city youth and taking advantage of their situations to make a profit...while teaching them the "business".  Maybe if the schools and law enforcement didnt have to fight with the activists, they could have better focus.
 
And yes, stricter punishments, parental accountability, loss of "benefits" for parents, severe intervention-- these are needed to fix this.  Rather than fixing the inner city however, I see us glamorizing that lifestyle and allowing the youth in non-urban areas to idolize it.  Its not just the dance and the music....the attitude has changed, and its not rebellious, its criminal.  Why does a kid in Parma feel he needs a gun "for protection", why are there kids in Brunswick selling crack, why is a kid picked up in Chardon for dealing assault weapons? 
 
This is a societal change.  Just as "free love" and the rebellion of the sixties has supposedly led to more acceptance and diversity, wider civil rights, openness with sexual orientation, better female rights, stronger personal freedoms....what will this rebellion lead us to? 
 
 


From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Nathaniel
Sent: Wednesday, September 30,[masked]:37 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [humanism-174] How did our values get so confused?

If we're talking about punishing offenders, we are too late to help. Kids need to be reached before they're old enough to be violent.

Kids need to be raised with certain values in order to function in society. These values are traditionally learned from parents and other role models, who are in short supply in poor areas. It will require a lot of community effort to fill that gap. Not just from their own communities, but from the rest of us, too.

Here's an interesting article about a Unitarian group's volunteer efforts at a Cleveland school:
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf/base/news/125369473255150.xml&coll=2

"Staffers believe community support plays a big part, including reading tutors supplied by the Experience Corps volunteer group.
...
All the attention from First Unitarian was like yeast - it caused morale to rise, as church folks shared resources and problem-solving skills.
...
"I'll tell the story to everybody who is willing to listen," he said. "The one-on-one attention, it stabilizes these kids' lives."



On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Mark Tiborsky <[address removed]> wrote:
> The story is ideed sickening... our society as a whole should be working
> towards eradicating all forms of senseless violence.
>  
> Draconian punishments for the perpetrators of all needlessly violent acts?
> As in the case of violent youth crime, increased accountability for the
> parents of the perpetrators? 
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Diana <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>> A quick rant.
>>  
>>  http://cbs2chicago.com/local/derrion.albert.investigation.2.1212436.html
>>  
>> I want to start by saying I hope no one will interpret this as a racist
>> comment.  There is no racist intention, but simply an observation about a
>> community which is often one of the most religious.  I read a different
>> story recently about the power and the intensity of religion in the
>> inner-city black communities, and how families were in church praying for
>> their gang-member sons.
>>  
>> The story at the link above upsets me because it seems like more innocent
>> bystanders are being pulled in to the web of violence of gangs and drugs. 
>> Its always the honor student, the military man just back from combat (as in
>> Akron recently), the good kid who works hard, etc. Often, the "good kid" is
>> ridiculed and targeted by the gang mentatlity.
>>  
>> I remember a time when these people-- the honor student, the soldier, the
>> blue-collar man-- had power.  They had respect from the community and they
>> were valued.  Now it seems they just need protection.  A statistic and a sad
>> story is all Darrion Albert will be permitted to be.  How do we return the
>> respect to decent people?
>>  
>> The end of the story referenced above is what made me write this comment--
>> perhaps rhetorical, since there is no answer-- but Im speechless and not
>> sure how to feel right now.
>>  
>> Monday night, parents and community members met with Fenger High School
>> officials as well as police.
>>
>> One activist promised that if they sense no progress on dealing with youth
>> violence, he'll organize a demonstration to embarrass the Mayor and the
>> school system.
>>
>> Mark Carter pledged to take a large group of children right up to the
>> barricades outside President Obama's Kenwood home. It'll be in full view, he
>> says, of the international press. 
>>  
>> First of all, when did it become the mayor and the school system's
>> responsibilty to raise the children???  It is the kids doing the violence,
>> not violence against the kids by the mayor and the school system.  We are
>> supposed to send kids to school and in to our communities who are eager to
>> learn and do well.  Not send them to commit violence and crime.  Not pray
>> for them while they commit violence and crime.  Parent them!  
>>  
>> Is there a place that the city and the school system can send the kids who
>> arent parented and who commit violence?  Oh, wait, they will be in jail soon
>> enough.  The city and the school systems are flooded with kids they cannot
>> control and arent able to punish because the parents who arent parenting
>> will sue them.
>>  
>> Mr. Carter-- why dont you take the children who are commiting the violence
>> on a march?  What about their parents?  There is much talk about the "black
>> community", but where is that community during black-on-black crime, during
>> gang violence, during events like this?  Instead you take the 10% -- the
>> good kids.  That is great, but we already want to help those kids.  Its the
>> other kids who need the help first.
>>  
>> I would not say this type of event couldnt happen in the suburban school
>> system in the area where I live.  There are certainly bad kids there. 
>> Columbine was in an affluent area of Cherry Creek in Denver.  But where I
>> live 90% of the parents parent and the bad kids are considered bad.  Even
>> then, the gang mentality--via hip hop and rap, etc. -- is considered cool.
>>  
>> When its the other way around the bad kids are revered, they get the
>> respect and the honor instead of the honor student.  How did bad become so
>> cool? 
>>  
>> Ok enough rant.  How do we save our children?  All of our children?  It
>> doesnt seem like throwing ones hands in the air to Jesus to save the youth
>> is providing an answer. 
>>
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