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Mailing List Archive

Subject Sender Date
Re: [humanism-174] Re: Tot starved AND our reaction - Even though I don't want to sound political, I think this quote from Obama is in order. "If we saw Abraham lifting his knife to kill Issac, we would have to call the police and the child welfare agency. Because we didn't see what he saw, we didn't hea Hos Aug 18, 2008 8:18 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Re: Tot starved AND our reaction - Call me cynical, but I see religion as just one champion of dogma among many. Religion is just a branch. You can cut it off, but another will grow in it's place and there are many other branches to worry about as well. If you want to take down the t Josh Aug 18, 2008 12:29 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Re: Tot starved AND our reaction - The story about starving a toddler to death for not saying amen was horrifying, and I agree that it would be unfair to cast all followers of Christianity (or any other religion) in the same light. However, it's clear that those people took their rel Cloudberry Aug 18, 2008 10:21 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Re: Tot starved AND our reaction - Great post, David! I find myself thinking about these things a lot. I think it boils down to curbing our reactionary tendencies, whether we're religious or nonreligious, liberal or conservative, etc.. Mark T. Aug 18, 2008 12:37 AM
Re: Tot starved AND our reaction - Hi, all. As upsetting as the religious starving of the child is, I'm really glad to see the reasoned responses to this on this listserve. I think it's easy to immediately react to this and blame religion for all p David Aug 17, 2008 9:18 PM
RE: [humanism-174] It's been a blast - Ok, so no one freaks out - John has decided there is too much going on right now, and he's taking a break, so he left CFT and Meetup for a while, but he'll be back eventually! Marni -----Original Message----- From: [address removed] [m Marni H. Aug 17, 2008 12:00 PM
Re: [humanism-174] It's been a blast - You're leaving the group? john f kaiser wrote: > So long and thanks for all the fish. > > > > > > > -- > Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed]) > http://hum Cloudberry Aug 17, 2008 11:32 AM
Re: [humanism-174] The Faces of Budhism - Well, I have heard the arguement before, that what makes anything violent is human interpretation, not religions and idealogies per se. I guess that could be said about Nazism too, after all, not all Nazis were muderers. As Bill Maher said the other d Hos Aug 17, 2008 9:52 AM
Re: [humanism-174] The Ethics of Secularism - This editorial by Paul Kurtz is well worth reading. Thanks for sharing the link! Mark Tiborsky wrote: > Excellent!!! > I'm with you, Gordon. I highly recommend this... Kurtz speaks for me, > that's for sure. It made me feel pretty good! > > On Cloudberry Aug 17, 2008 8:01 AM
The Faces of Budhism - I think it may be time to talk a little about Budhism, as this has come up recently. All religions in the world are practiced in different ways, depending on where and by whom they are practiced. Budhism is no exception. But if you want to see what a Hos Aug 16, 2008 5:19 PM
Re: [humanism-174] The Ethics of Secularism - Excellent!!! I'm with you, Gordon. I highly recommend this... Kurtz speaks for me, that's for sure. It made me feel pretty good! On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 6:38 PM, G Mark T. Aug 16, 2008 3:31 PM
The Ethics of Secularism - Cleveland Freethinkers, I just finished reading Paul Kurtz's offering in the latest issue of Free Inquiry . It's titled "The Ethics of Secularism" and it's a wonderful editorial. I'd like to encourage every Gordon Aug 15, 2008 6:38 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Bill Maher - Thanks. I think the best thing people can do to support him is subscribe to HBO. I am sure HBO gets lots of letters from everyone but bc they have no sponsors, subsciption numbers are all they care about. Does anyone know of HBO ever bowing to pressure? T Ginger Aug 15, 2008 2:50 PM
error, here's the link corrected - http://arcweb.archives.gov/arc­/action/RetryPeopleSearch?%24s­ubmitId=1&%24partitionIndex=0&­%24searchId=25&%24highlight=fa­lse Cloudberry Aug 15, 2008 1:08 PM
Was your relative a government spy? - Have you seen the news story about the role Julia Child played for the government, around the time that she met her husband? You can enter your relatives' names and find out if any of them were also helping the war effort as spies, etc. Here's the Cloudberry Aug 15, 2008 1:07 PM
Re: [humanism-174] bill maher show - What's funny is that I never noticed any foul language. And it would never bother me. Shows you what I am used to. :) Joanne Rilling <[address removed]> wrote: Ginger Aug 15, 2008 12:31 PM
Re: [humanism-174] bill maher show - I would generally agree. I loved the show, too. My biggest problems with Maher are- his characterization of mainstream medicine vs. "holistic" (not in the show last night but he has some other goofy views), and his perceptions of men and women. I agreed w Ginger Aug 15, 2008 10:18 AM
Re: [humanism-174] bill maher show - As for the 9-11 hecklers, even if they're right about it being a planned demolition in cooperation with our own government (and I'm not saying they are), it wasn't Bush that planned it. As Bill Maher said, that calls for planning. And thinking. Two Cloudberry Aug 15, 2008 10:16 AM
bill maher show - Bill Maher put on an excellent show tonight- just about 2 hrs. with hardly a wasted moment! He skewered a lot of things that deserve skewering. His use of F-word was a tad heavy, that's about the only Mark T. Aug 15, 2008 12:57 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Police: Tot starved for refusing to say 'amen' - Extreme examples of tragedies happen within all ideologies. There have been stories of health nuts or "vegans" (who weren't really following typical recommended vegan diets) charged with starving or killing their children as well. I think the s Ginger Aug 14, 2008 10:23 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Police: Tot starved for refusing to say 'amen' - The story of abraham teaches us to put faith above our own children! Its no wonder. Joanna <[address removed]> wrote: Ginger Aug 13, 2008 7:27 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Marni H. Aug 13, 2008 7:00 PM
Re: [humanism-174] to soul or not to soul, and a change of subject - Well, if Jesus is still with God the father-who is himself by the way-then what does that make of "he died for your sins"? On 8/13/08, Cloudberry wrote: > I may not have been clear in my last post about the soul...I meant t Hos Aug 13, 2008 4:37 PM
to soul or not to soul, and a change of subject - I may not have been clear in my last post about the soul...I meant to say that if you believe that humans are the only creatures that have one, and that having a soul means that we will live in another form after death for all eternity, couldn't tha Cloudberry Aug 13, 2008 4:20 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Preview not available Hos Aug 13, 2008 1:37 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Preview not available Cloudberry Aug 13, 2008 12:00 PM
Re: [humanism-174] China & The Olympics - Michael- I totally agree. I dvr'd the opening ceremonies and have watched them 3 times since. I'm still stunned. It's not just the shear beauty, scale and precision, it's that the performers seem genuinely happy, excited and proud to be a part of Josh Aug 13, 2008 11:33 AM
RE: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Wow, I'm busy for a few days and this list explodes!!! I'll start with the food topic. I'm not sure if this is total coincidence, but Mano Singham (a local Case professor whom many in the Freethinkers already know or have heard of) has spent the las Josh Aug 13, 2008 11:20 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Preview not available coreyhaines Aug 13, 2008 9:54 AM
RE: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Marni H. Aug 13, 2008 7:58 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Jason said: "Eating meat greatly increased brain capacity during human evolution." There is evidence to support this- however, anthropologists contend that meat was Mark T. Aug 13, 2008 12:26 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Re: protected species rules - Jason, I sincerely hope that at least some of these practitioners of "shoot, shovel, shut-up" had the whistle blown on them, & faced heavy fines (or better yet, are sitting in prison as I sp Mark T. Aug 12, 2008 11:38 PM
Re: [humanism-174] China & The Olympics - The synchronized diving was fantastic. I'm no athlete and never was, but I enjoy watching the games. I heard a conservative talk show host slamming liberals for being against the Olympics. But I'm a liberal, and I would have been very upset if the U Cloudberry Aug 12, 2008 9:37 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - And one more thing. In any advocacy movement, there is a lot of crap info being peddled, but I stand behind the information distributed by a tiny group called veganoutreach.org http://www.veganoutreach.org/a­dvocacy/resources.html takes you to these great Ginger Aug 12, 2008 7:53 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Also know that I have spent at least 10 years discussing this with people, and there aren't a lot of arguments I haven't heard or know how to respond to, so if anyone feels they are in the minority on this, I have your back. :) But I total Ginger Aug 12, 2008 7:49 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Lydia, Actually, I believe these 2 topics ARE relevant to the group's description- they both relate to religion, politics, philosophy, and science. They also relate to Humankind's warped rela Mark T. Aug 12, 2008 7:18 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - I think evolutionary history is relevant, in that the food our ancestors evolved to digest likely is still a good source of nutrition for us today. Besides, since we are an animal species, I find it hard to think that we can be "guilty" of a physiologi Hos Aug 12, 2008 5:58 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - What our ancestors did is irrelevant. (argument from tradition) How we evolved is irrelevent. Dawkins often says that evolution is not moral imperative. We also wouldn't be where we are today evolutionarily. without rape, murder, and genocide. What's Ginger Aug 12, 2008 5:02 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - That's an interesting perspective! Good point. On the other hand, when my children were babies, and I fed them baby food out of jars, they wrinkled their noses when I introduced meat the first few times. This was not true for fruit purees, grains, o Cloudberry Aug 12, 2008 10:32 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - user 2. Aug 12, 2008 10:19 AM
Re: protected species rules - Not to open another can of worms, but its been said that the endangered species act has done more harm to endangered species than good. However its hard to determine the numbers. When endangered animals are discov Jason Aug 12, 2008 10:18 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - I grew up on a farm, and have been a hunter since I was young. Many of Jason Aug 12, 2008 9:54 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Joanna said: "It's just unexpected that a bunch of atheists and freethinkers would spend this amount of time considering animals this way..." Mark T. Aug 12, 2008 12:26 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - Since these are bound to come up, let me just get them out of the way, the typical responses to arguments on behalf of factory farmed animals. Perfect as the enemy of the good- You can't live your life without harming a Ginger Aug 11, 2008 2:11 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Chik-Fil-A - I've heard of this Chik-Fil-A chain but have never been to one, and now I'm glad. For info on how chickens are raised check out the literary-fantasy novel, Fresh Eggs, by local author Rob Levandoski. Levandoski grew up on a farm and has told me t Cloudberry Aug 11, 2008 10:11 AM
Re: [humanism-174] What Would Jesus Buy - Hahahaha!!! John, you're a genius! I can't wait to tell our nephew about these modifications... we're going to see him later this week. I forgot to mention that Mark T. Aug 10, 2008 10:24 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Fw: I Think You Qualify - Interesting. I actually had about 6 of those. And the thing is, if the guy knew I were atheist, he'd probably assume I had zero. These things make me sick because they don't understand that majority rules without the bill of rights is like two wolv Ginger Aug 10, 2008 8:13 PM
Fw: I Think You Qualify - mardell Aug 10, 2008 6:45 PM
Re: [humanism-174] What Would Jesus Buy - Spirituality morphing into commercialism. How shocking. Not. On 8/10/08, john f kaiser wrote: > You should send that to the writing staff at Saturday Night Live. They could > do a whole skit on the White Light Specials and th Hos Aug 10, 2008 6:43 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - I think that mild expressions of religious beliefs by small businesses are innocuous, as are mild expressions of political affiliation. But kicked up to the corporate scale, it really creeps me out! I' Mark T. Aug 10, 2008 5:57 PM
Re: [humanism-174] What Would Jesus Buy - That's ok- let 'em waste their money! Our nephew, T.J., who really should be a member of this group- but he hasn't joined up yet, 'cause he's a slacker like his uncle- had a great idea Mark T. Aug 10, 2008 3:32 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Converting Sinners on a TV show - Reality TV - UK style - Nice link. Thanks, John. Let's hope that doesn't spawn a similar show this side of the pond! About England, I haven't heard anything to indicate that the Queen is no longer the head of the Church of England, which is the state-sponsored church. I be Cloudberry Aug 10, 2008 2:00 PM
CNN: God's Warriors - Any CFT member: I taped the program for anyone who missed it. I'll give some copies to Mark & Marni for whoever wants one whenever I make it to a meetup. My Ray G. Aug 10, 2008 12:25 PM
new member update & stuff - Hi Everybody, This week, we welcome 7 new Cleveland Freethinkers... Brian, NJS, David Krej Ci, Ashley, Robert O. Drake, Ray V., and Maggie Iverson!!! Mark T. Aug 10, 2008 2:31 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Re: Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Change that to "a religious fanatic" and I would agree. In fact, I don't fully trust any type of fanatic. 2 atheist fanatics, Stalin & Mao Zedong, were unquestionably 2 of the biggest ah Mark T. Aug 9, 2008 9:47 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Entire "Marjoe" documentary on Youtube - Preview not available Cloudberry Aug 9, 2008 6:07 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Preview not available user 2. Aug 9, 2008 4:14 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Since most of the people here were believers as some point, were they all untrustworthy until they dropped that belief? From the point of view of someone very interested in skepticism as well as cognitive psychology, the instant you start thinking Ginger Aug 9, 2008 3:28 PM
RE: [humanism-174] Entire "Marjoe" documentary on Youtube - Marni H. Aug 9, 2008 3:07 PM
Re: Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - user 7. Aug 9, 2008 2:33 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Entire "Marjoe" documentary on Youtube - At about 1:25 in part 1, little Marjoe is marrying a couple and it looks like a clip taken right from an old "Little Rascals" film. HA! Gordon <[address removed]> wrote: Gordon Aug 9, 2008 12:54 PM
Entire "Marjoe" documentary on Youtube - Looks like someone has posted the entire "Marjoe" documentary on youtube. If you guys haven't seen this, it's worth watching. Marjoe Gortner hits the road as a traveling Pentecostal preacher and shows just how easy it is to get people to believe he's Gordon Aug 9, 2008 12:49 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Preview not available Nathaniel Aug 8, 2008 9:40 PM
Re: [humanism-174] De-Baptism more press coverage - I can't say what the writer meant, but I took it as a tongue-in-cheek reference to being just regular folk. Not all religious pot lucks are comfortable and not all religious speakers are dynamic, right? Same with school meetings...I used to dread the m Cloudberry Aug 8, 2008 8:06 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Preview not available Cloudberry Aug 8, 2008 7:56 PM
Re: [humanism-174] God's Warriors - That is a little better, but only a little. I think it's no accident that the words have been chosen so the initials spell out army. What they do seems good, kind, and helpful now, but what if one day a church leader says it's time to be a real army Cloudberry Aug 8, 2008 7:54 PM
RE: [humanism-174] God's Warriors - Marni H. Aug 8, 2008 6:56 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Tracy said: "The impression I get from this group is this: We whine how much this is a Christian nation and how much it may or may not suck, but I think we lose sight that if we expec Mark T. Aug 8, 2008 6:36 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - user 2. Aug 8, 2008 4:09 PM
Re: [humanism-174] a question - I belong to 2 meetup freethinking groups on the MS gulf coast. The meetup freethinkers of central MS lost it's organizer. I belong to a humanist group in New Orleans and the Alabama Freedom From Religion group in Talladega. The U.U. church in Mobile H user 2. Aug 8, 2008 3:33 PM
Re: [humanism-174] a question - Thanks, Gordon! I've been job hunting, and wondering what I would do if I have to move out of state. Gordon wrote: > Looks like there's about 435 groups on meetup.com associated with the > word "freethinker". Not too shabby... > > http://www.mee Cloudberry Aug 8, 2008 3:12 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - My wife and I encountered two restaurants like that one in MS and one in Ashtabula county. We left and told the hostesses why. Incidentally the one in Ohio is now an adult bookstore. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cloudberry" user 2. Aug 8, 2008 3:10 PM
Re: [humanism-174] expression of religion - In reply to Tracy, there is a difference between "a Christian nation" and a nation where the majority adhere to some branch of the Christian religion. This is not a Christian nation, even though this is a nation with a lot of Christians in it. How Cloudberry Aug 8, 2008 3:09 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Tracy, Unfortunately, you have a common misunderstanding in your email. As an Athiest, I don't expect people to 'tolerate my beliefs.' When it comes to invisible friends, it isn't a matter of 'belief,& coreyhaines Aug 8, 2008 2:10 PM
Re: [humanism-174] a question - Looks like there's about 435 groups on meetup.com associated with the word "freethinker". Not too shabby... Gordon Aug 8, 2008 2:01 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Perhaps, this where I struggle with myself as a hypocrite.....especially with those Christians who are seemingly out to convert the world and make ever Tracy K. Aug 8, 2008 1:46 PM
a question - Just wondering, does anyone know if Cleveland Freethinkers is a rarity among meetup groups, or if other cities also have similar groups? How common or uncommon is it to find a freethinking meetup group wherever you go? Cloudberry Aug 8, 2008 1:41 PM
Judge sets hearing on Ten Commandments - mardell Aug 8, 2008 12:27 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - What is interesting is that I find a lot of the issues that come up in where to draw the line with support/indirect support of something you are against comes up in other causes as well. For myself, it come up in animal welfare/rights dis Ginger Aug 8, 2008 12:15 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - Your dentist is assuming that all his or her patients are Christians, or should be. If there are some who are not Christian, the dentist is assuming that whatever he/she can do to promote Christianity to the heathens is a good thing. I would not be Cloudberry Aug 8, 2008 11:19 AM
God's Warriors - I don't have cable so won't be able to watch the show on CNN, but thought I'd comment here that 3 of my nephews (all from the same family living in Texas) are members of UMA. When I asked my sister-in-law what that stood for, she said United Methodi Cloudberry Aug 8, 2008 10:51 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - I think that private practices are the domain of their owners. Just like we often use the excuse of 'you can turn it off' when talking about christees who protest things that aren't their business, it is always up to the patron coreyhaines Aug 8, 2008 10:45 AM
Re: [humanism-174] apology and forgiveness from secular vs. religious point of view - There is a great book i recently read on the topic of forgiveness. The Sunflower by Simon Wiesenthal, is a detailed account of a holocaust survivor's struggle with this very topic. The first half is d Jason Aug 8, 2008 10:24 AM
Dr.s and expression of religion in practice - My family all go to a dentist who is very openly Christian and leaves Christian oriented books in the waiting room. The invoices have Bible quotes. At first I thought I wouldn't go bc of that, but I like the dentist and it only mildly an Ginger Aug 8, 2008 10:23 AM
2 quickies - It's... it's... it's a porta-church! For half naked people! http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm Mark T. Aug 7, 2008 11:53 PM
God's Warriors - If you missed this the first time it aired, this is pretty heavy duty stuff - a great documentary by a really great reporter. Please watch it if you can, or tape it. It's airing this weekend: CNN Presents: God's Warriors CNN's chief Marni H. Aug 7, 2008 12:29 PM
Rational Response Squad - I just found this group that you may be interested in. I'm bopping around their site now Eric Aug 7, 2008 10:29 AM
apology and forgiveness from secular vs. religious point of view - apology and forgiveness from secular vs. religious point of view I may write a blog entry about this and was wondering people's thoughts. I've been thinking about these things in purely se Ginger Aug 7, 2008 9:29 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Re: Skeptic Magazine - "Beck highly praised Stein's documentary saying everyone should see it." It figures... that pill-poppin' blunderbuss Rush Limbaugh praised Expelled, too. One has to wonder if AN Mark T. Aug 6, 2008 11:18 PM
Re: [humanism-174] new "Genius of Darwin" 1st of 3 in a series by Dawkins. - Hey Richard, Thanks for sharing the link. I very much enjoyed the video! Gordon richard <[address removed]> wrote: Gordon Aug 6, 2008 8:37 PM
Re: [humanism-174] Re: Skeptic Magazine - Concerning "Expelled" - a few weeks ago Glenn Beck (he has a show on CNN weekdays at 7pm) had Ben Stein on as his guest. Beck highly praised Stein's documentary Ray G. Aug 6, 2008 7:29 PM
RE: [humanism-174] interfaith gathering at Dem convention - "We need to get out into the communities and show people that we're not bad and we're not evil. People misunderstand us, they're scared of us, and in order to bring change, we have to educate! Gordon Aug 6, 2008 6:02 PM
Re: Skeptic Magazine - The DVD release date for Expelled is 10/21/08. I just find that date nteresting, because it's only three weeks after 'Religulous' comes out in theatres, which we have a meetup for, by the way (shameless plug for future meetup participation) :) - see the l Marni H. Aug 6, 2008 5:35 PM
Re: [humanism-174] God oaths and swearing in - As far as Rosa Parks and violence in the streets, nobody has been making me drink out of a separate water fountain so far as I've noticed. (to mention one of the more tame things endured during that era in the South.) I Ginger Aug 6, 2008 2:50 PM
CFI Group Discussion Meeting Aug. 13 - Every so often, the CFI Community of NE Ohio holds a "Box Of Questions" meeting, which is a group discussion format around three pre-selected topics. There will be a "Box Of Questions" meeting on Wed., Aug. 13, 7-8:45 p.m., at t Brent Aug 6, 2008 10:57 AM
Re: [humanism-174] God oaths and swearing in - Preview not available Cloudberry Aug 6, 2008 10:54 AM
Re: [humanism-174] God oaths and swearing in - Preview not available Tracy K. Aug 6, 2008 10:28 AM
Re: [humanism-174] God oaths and swearing in - I was worried about an oath once, but they didn't use God. I am not sure what I'd do since often what we say we'd do is very different from what we will if we are caught off guard. I think this is a situation of choosing your battles. At work vs. jur Ginger Aug 6, 2008 9:12 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Skeptic Magazine - "Either way, I think it's a good idea to learn about this dangerous mix of ultraconservative politics & thinly-veiled creationist religion. Recently, the State of Louisianna OK'd the teaching of ID as science in their public schools. Sona Aug 6, 2008 8:58 AM
Re: [humanism-174] Skeptic Magazine - Hi, Lydia! Skeptic Magazine is probably referring to the DVD release of Expelled - the film opened in theaters April 18th to much poo-ha-ha, but ended up tanking (nyuk, nyuk). Better yet, Expelled Mark T. Aug 6, 2008 1:05 AM

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