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A Question of Trust

It seems that the Root Cause of the issue (as they say at work) is a lack of trust in our community. People don't trust others to either do what's best for the community at large, or to have their back when things go bad.

If we are to have a real community, not just pretend we have a community, there has to be some trust, so how do we resolve this issue? As the email list has pointed out plainly, this is not a purely spiritual issue, but one of material consequence. We have some real trust issues that need to be resolved, if we are to move forward in any menaingful direction.

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  • A former member
    A former member

    Can Someone PLEASE give me a ride!
    I have REALLY wanted to come to several of the past few meetups;
    but these last 13 months of fighting Breast Cancer have left me so easily too tired to do much of anything!

    1 · May 5, 2014

    • Jade

      Were are you

      1 · May 15, 2014

    • Sherry

      I live off of 120th and I25

      May 16, 2014

  • Samantha (Altaira) F.

    Wow, It is times like these that I wash I was still in Denver. I'd be there in a heart beat. But to fly a good 2000 mile to do so, would be a little excessive, Unless I come across a few mil. in cash. Then I'll have my own plane.
    Sorry, I really wish I could be there. I'd like to from all, as to what goes on at the next meetup.
    Thanks Samm

    May 15, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    Trust is something that must be earned.

    1 · May 4, 2014

    • Jade

      Actually trust is easily given but once broken hard to gain.:-)

      1 · May 15, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    I would not show up to a place where a totally untrained individual is bragging about carrying a concealed weapon.

    1 · May 11, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      There was a strong emphasis on range awareness, ie. what was around and behind both your target and you. Under the CCW law as I have read it, you don't even have to practice. If one does, great, but I ask that you get more than just static range time for the safety if the innocents that may be around if you have to use the weapon. Is that so unreasonable?

      May 15, 2014

    • Greyhart

      Had you bothered to ask, instead of assuming, you might have found out quite a lot more about my thoughts on these subjects. Instead, you assumed I have no training, that I don't currently train, and that I won't ever train with my firearm.

      You know what they say about when a person makes assumptions.

      3 · May 15, 2014

  • Greyhart

    So far, I see a whole lot of people going, who for the most part all seem to agree. Where are those who have been disagreeing?

    I put this Meetup together so that they could voice their point of view, and maybe, just maybe, we might make a little headway. This and the last Meetup were supposed to be a forum for those who don't agree, to voice their concerns. So far two have commented, but don't seem to want to go. I think I can safely say that those who are currently signed up, have some basic trust in each other.

    I'm giving everyone a chance to state their position, and persuade others to it. At least have your side of the argumant heard. Are there no takers?

    1 · May 13, 2014

    • Bonnie

      Taking the chance to not be "shouted down", but my guess is that people who are not coming don't feel comfortable voicing a dissenting opinion, based on the the emails that have occurred. People who disagree, even politely and rationally, are often put down, belittled, insulted. Their opinions are not respectfully responded to.

      1 · May 15, 2014

    • Greyhart

      I know you expressed that after the original Meetup where this all started, and I'm sorry you felt that way. I am a strong personality (bet you never guessed, did you?) so I sometimes forget that others aren't comfortable making themselves heard.

      I've always said that I don't care if you agree with me. That doesn't mean I don't want you to agree with everything I say, it means that I understand that diverse opinions and beliefs are the best way to expose new people to what is available. I don't expect to agree 100% with anyone, but I do have some very deeply held beliefs of my own, that I will defend when they are attacked. That has been known to scare some people when it happens.

      I can't guarantee that you won't get shouted down at a Meetup, but I would much rather you, or another with a different point of view talk about it, than have everyone in complete agreement the entire time. If you feel like you're being shouted down, let me know, and we'll see how we might get it fixed.

      2 · May 15, 2014

  • Deanna

    This promises to be an interesting discussion. Wish I could make it but have an incoming college student and will be at the airport.

    May 15, 2014

  • Gwynalda

    If you BAN Puffin—

    It makes a mockery of the free and open “exchange of ideas” that’s purportedly the purpose of this Meet-Up Mailing List.

    It proves that questioners, dissenters, naysayers and those who DARE to disagree with the “Organizer’s” point of view, deserve to be SILENCED for daring to SPEAK OUT.

    So much for “Perfect Trust”!!! Q.E.D.—Gwynalda )O(

    1 · May 13, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      And, it seems, there is the possibility that if they disagree they get banned. Free excange it seems only goes so far.

      May 14, 2014

    • Greyhart

      I won't ban someone for disagreeing with me. I will however have no problems banning someone who uses personal insults as frequently as Puffin has.

      1 · May 14, 2014

  • Pat & B.

    I believe there are different degrees of trust. This is demonstrated by the level of responsibility that each person has attained. Yes, this is completely subjective, because can not in reality be measured and verified under scientific standardization. We're speaking of "Human Behavior". That being said, it also depends on circumstance and experience. Each individual has their own standard of how to measure trust. It also depends on culture, exposure to different aspects of civilization/cultures, actual life and death situations and many other variables that are too many to list here. As far as trust within the Pagan community, I believe there is an unspoken trust. It may be minimal, until one gets to know the person or group. With familiarity, that trust can either grow, or dissipate. That also depends on the individual subjective standard.

    1 · May 5, 2014

    • Pat & B.

      Trust is reciprocal. As the leader trusts their subordinates, so too does the subordinate trust their leaders. This statement reflects the need for leadership courses that I feel are necessary for every leader/HPS/HP/Witch/etc.­ Not only will they help a person in mundane life, but, also in their spiritual life as well. The Alpha wolf is only as strong as the pack.

      2 · May 5, 2014

    • Pat & B.

      I also believe the Pagan community needs to come to a consensus, not compromise, to facilitate further trust between individuals within the community.

      2 · May 5, 2014

  • Gwynalda

    “Sure—‘Perfect Love and Perfect Trust’—BUT DON’T leave your brains at the door!”—Joe Z. {Founding HP of Shadowfolk Tradition & my Craft mentor}

    Right, Walt, Trust must be EARNED. Otherwise, it’s meaningless. {OR, subject to such horrific examples of the charismatic Wolf in Grandma’s nightie saying, “TRUST me;” or that old, ironic childhood joke about, “Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ isn’t in the dictionary?”}

    WORDS =/= {do NOT equal} DEEDS.

    Only personal experience can reveal to us whether or not someone is trustworthy. Attitudes of “Do as I SAY, not as I DO” & “I know best” do NOT engender confidence. At least not with me. BB—Gwynalda )O(

    1 · May 4, 2014

  • Gwynalda

    1 · May 4, 2014

    • Greyhart

      Somehow I never expected you to quote Ronald Regan. So what is it, exactly, that you wish to verify?

      1 · May 4, 2014

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