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Re: [furries-290] A Few Ambitions

From: Amaroq
Sent on: Friday, August 31, 2012 3:49 AM
I lived in Bellevue. It is a very nice place to live. But the cost of living is pretty high. When I lived there a while back, me and a friend of mine had to split rent on a ONE BEDROOM apartment. It was like $1200 a month for a one bedroom. But it was a really nice place to live. Right across the street from Microsoft, and down the street from DigiPen, which is where my roommate was going to college. So you might want to check apartment places before you move, find one with a good rent, and make sure you have a job lined up before you move. It's even possible to call the apartment complex and do the application process over the phone and through the mail. You could be really cautious about it and have everything lined up before you leave the state you're currently in.

You might want to be careful and check out everything involved in starting any kind of housing thing. I mentioned government intervention in the banking industry earlier. But government intervention is everywhere, making it harder for everyone, especially those who try the hardest to succeed. The housing industry is no different. There are a lot of laws that are unfair to landlords and they can destroy you if you aren't prepared. For example, a friend of mine's dad in Oregon owns an apartment complex that, last I heard, he was trying to get out of. Or maybe it was just a house he was renting. I can't remember. There are some people living there who regularly violate their lease and can't pay their rent, and so he chose to evict them. He gave them three months warning. But they took him to court, and regardless of the fact that they're in the wrong, he now has to give them several more months for free, which is costing him money and ruining his life. He was going to sell the place and sell his current place for a downpayment on another place he wants to move into, but he can't do anything because the law restricts him and forces him to keep giving these people a place to live for free.

About the topic of dictatorship earlier: Dictatorship is, by its nature, force. So is government actually. But I'm not an anarchist. I support limited government to protect us from criminals, frauds, foreign invasions. That way the government is using force to defend us rather than to harm us.

What kind of a dictatorship doesn't use force? Dictatorship is not much different than having a king. What sets it apart from non-dictatorship, non-king, non-any-kind-of-rule, is that it's about ruling people. Being able to impose your will on them for whatever reason. Maybe you think you know what's best for them or just want them to put your wishes into place whether they want to or not. (I'm using general "you" here, not specifically you "you".) Explain what you would accomplish as a dictator that wouldn't involve using force? What if people didn't want to cooperate? How would you accomplish it?
 
---------------
~Amaroq Wolf

From: Alex Maurin <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, August 31,[masked]:51 AM
Subject: Re: [furries-290] A Few Ambitions

On Fri, 31 Aug[masked]:51:26 -0400
F3nix Wolf <[address removed]> wrote:

> I am sorry but this has been eating at me.  At its heart what this
> "moon fur colony" really is, is a mult-trillion dollar venture, and
> you are expecting a group of people who a good majority struggle (ie
> spend it all on furry shit) pay rent as it is.  However...call it a
> "moon fur CON" and people will throw money left and right

lol inorite?

Man, I'm so excited about a package coming in the mail! I'm so ready to
do some SCIENCE! I have my laboratory set up and ready for performing
my experiment!

I can't wait!

Also, I've recently come up with some excellent ideas for a story, and
I may decide to rewrite it as a novel to publish with FurPlanet, we'll
see how that goes.

Speaking of cults, I actually have some ideas for developing a story
based on the idea of a neopagan-therian cult that tries to take over the
world in their religious mania, and eventually gets imprisoned in an
Antartic penal colony, and hilarity ensues.

Instead of physically building a furry convention on the moon, I may
write a story about it, and detail some of the politics, mysteries and
intrigue that goes on within the lunar colonies. We'll see.

I DO want to build a furry convention on the moon, but I'm unlikely to
make quite the billions of dollars necessary to actually build a city
on the moon.

Even Arx Ferae Station would require several billion dollars at the
very least, and possibly several hundred billion.

So it's a HUGE ambition. I WILL aim for it, but I'm not crazy enough to
truly believe it's probable that I'll be able to do it without
miraculous levels of help.

That said, I AM likely to be capable of building a "furry village"
within Seattle, the center of which would be a housing cooperative,
similar to but not exactly an ecovillage, and a cohousing project.

This would allow furries that, as you said, tend to struggle, to live
very comfortably for a very affordable membership fee as opposed to
outrageously expensive rent, and get all the amenities we really
deserve but generally don't get.

This is going to be awesome.

Also, I have some news. Within 16 months, I will have a car and a
condo. I MIGHT be able to move to Seattle within 16 months, as opposed
to the 2-3 years I was quoting previously, but that's still to be
decided.

Bellevue looks like a nice place to live, btw.

> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:46 PM, sudz <[address removed]> wrote:
>
> > Cults.
> >
> >
> > Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G
> >
> >
> > Crystal <[address removed]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  I have to agree with Coyo on this: While dictatorship is usually a
> > forcive thing, there CAN be good dictatorship. It all depends on the
> > person, really.
> >
> > > From: [address removed]
> > > To: [address removed]
> > > Subject: Re: [furries-290] A Few Ambitions
> > > Date: Thu, 30 Aug[masked]:07:18 -0400
> > >
> > > On Thu, 30 Aug[masked]:11:09 -0400
> > > Amaroq <[address removed]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I really have to disagree strongly with a good amount of what
> > > > you just said. It's impossible for there to be a good dictator.
> > >
> > > A dictator doesn't HAVE to force people to obey at gunpoint.
> > > There is always the choice to not act.
> > >
> > > The opposite of dictatorship is anarchy. Anarchy SOUNDS nice but I
> > > really don't want to discuss this.
> > >
> > > > No matter
> > > > how well-intentioned, it's impossible to achieve good by
> > > > controlling people. Human nature is such that we flourish the
> > > > best when we're free to think and act on our own judgment. Any
> > > > person or any government initiating force prevents people from
> > > > acting on their own judgment.
> > >
> > > Anarchy sounds good at first, but how are we going to achieve it?
> > >
> > > Anarchy-capitalism is what I would prefer, where there is no real
> > > authorized initator of force, in the sense of being legitimized in
> > > their initation of force.
> > >
> > > But this will never happen while government of any kind exists.
> > >
> > > We could attempt to reform existing government to get as close to
> > > direct electronic democracy as possible, but again, how do we
> > > transition to that?
> > >
> > > There are existing powers that are neither you nor I, and we have
> > > almost no power against them.
> > >
> > > > The creation of wealth depends on the ability of free people to
> > > > produce and trade with each other. Interposing your judgment
> > >
> > > my judgement?
> > >
> > > > between
> > > > their judgment and their actions stifles their ability to live
> > > > the way they think is best for them, and destroys actual and
> > > > potential wealth. Thus it's counterproductive for you to say
> > > > you want a good dictatorship to help you accomplish your dream
> > > > of a spacefaring society.
> > >
> > > Fair enough.
> > >
> > > I would never want a permanent dictatorship, that's for certain.
> > >
> > > But a strong leadership may be necessary to transition to
> > > electronic direct democracy or a form of true anarchy, in order
> > > to combat existing governments, and the powers that control them.
> > >
> > > > You'll need those people to continue voluntarily trading and
> > > > creating wealth in order to have someone to trade with yourself.
> > > > Trying to impose your dreams with a dictatorship will actually
> > > > work to destroy your chance to realize those dreams. And you'll
> > > > destroy everyone else's dreams in the process.
> > > >
> > > > I would also say most humans don't objectively act in their
> > > > self-interest. :P You might be confusing self-interest for
> > > > hedonism, which I don't consider to be in your self-interest.
> > >
> > > Utilitarianism is a form of hedonism when balanced by scientific
> > > enlightenment. Unfortunately, Utilitarianism seems to be a
> > > scientific ideal that no actual human could ever obey. We'll see.
> > >
> > > > A drug addict is
> > > > a good example of this. Just because you want something doesn't
> > > > necessarily mean it's in your self-interest.
> > >
> > > This depends on the drug. Not all drugs are bad, nor are all drugs
> > > necessarily harmful to you, or even against your actual self
> > > interest.
> > >
> > > What you are saying is, "what you want isn't necessarily what you
> > > need."
> > >
> > > Turning the precept of "Let the people decide for themselves"
> > > around, who determines that something someone wants ISN'T what
> > > they need? Why NOT allow the market to supply drugs to those who
> > > want them?
> > >
> > >
> > > > This whole time, I've been speaking of humans in general. But
> > > > you seem set on making this a furry exclusive thing. That's
> > > > gonna make it tougher I'm sure. Maybe even impossible, or close
> > > > to impossible.
> > >
> > > I am not making it exclusive to furries, but I do want to make it
> > > a central headquarters for furry culture, similar to how Salt
> > > Lake City is a LOT MORE than just the headquarters of Mormon
> > > culture and society, it's a city in it's own right, and many
> > > non-LDS insurance corporations are headquartered there. Salt Lake
> > > City contains many mormons, but it's not a purely mormon city.
> > >
> > > By saying this, I am not comparing furry fan community culture and
> > > society with a religion, as that would be comparing apples with
> > > oranges, but subculture to subculture, we don't have a central
> > > headquarters, yet, whereas the subculture that exists within the
> > > structure of the mormon church, does, at salt lake city.
> > >
> > > Seattle could BECOME that furry mecca, or rather, a specific
> > > portion within Seattle could become that furry mecca.
> > >
> > > It would NOT, however, be furry exclusive.
> > >
> > > I apologize in advance if I cannot reply, because meetup.com is
> > > highly restricting my ability to send emails to this mailing list.
> > >
> > > I should also note that I'm not truly a fan of dictatorships,
> > > because finding a good dictator is, as you said, impossible.
> > >
> > > > ---------------
> > > > ~Amaroq Wolf
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Alex Maurin <[address removed]>
> > > > To: [address removed]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 29,[masked]:11 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [furries-290] A Few Ambitions
> > > >
> > > > I would tend to agree, Amaroq, that there's nothing wrong with
> > > > what my dad calls "Enlightened Self-Interest."
> > > >
> > > > It means that although you recognize that all humans ultimately
> > > > act in their own self interest 99.8% of the time or whatever,
> > > > you can delay gratification, and IF you are patient enough to
> > > > invest wisely, etc, you can actually improve the quality of
> > > > life for many people by "You scratch my back, I scratch yours"
> > > > type of deals.
> > > >
> > > > Business, and by extension, corporations, are not evil by
> > > > definition, unless you're an agorist, who believes that
> > > > chartering with a government automatically makes you evil as an
> > > > extension of that government.
> > > >
> > > > No, Although direct electronic democracy can theoretically be a
> > > > good thing, really, what we need is a GOOD dictator. The
> > > > problem is "How do we find a GOOD dictator?" which leads to
> > > > "How do we ensure the good dictator is actually a
> > > > well-intentioned and competent person?"
> > > >
> > > > I'm hoping that a dictatorship that's informed by up to the
> > > > millisecond news and information using a digital infrastructure
> > > > for feedback on decision-making and clear representation by
> > > > every significant group of society, we could build a REALLY EPIC
> > > > Space-Faring society and culture which really would colonize the
> > > > stars.
> > > >
> > > > Enlightened self-interest is not bad, only myopic ignorant
> > > > greed is bad, where you ignorantly destroy your capital for
> > > > short-term gains when and kill the goose that lays the golden
> > > > egg, along with every cash cow. It's stupidity.
> > > >
> > > > No, what you do is collar the cash cows and gold-laying gooses,
> > > > treat them nicely, but give them cell phones, insurance
> > > > policies, and gps-tracking collars, and make them feel
> > > > supremely safe and content to be in your household. Make them
> > > > never want to leave.
> > > >
> > > > This is the smart thing to do.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I do not know if I will ever make the kind of money that would
> > > > be required to pay SpaceX to deliver the colonization equipment
> > > > to the moon, but I'm damned if I'm not going to try. It's TOO
> > > > COOL not to!
> > > >
> > > > Arx Ferae here on Earth, though, will probably start off as
> > > > just a Furry Village within the Seattle metropolitan area.
> > > > Start out as a collection of buildings, and eventually
> > > > "colonize" an entire skyline condo building over time. Thing
> > > > is, if I can make enough money, I could help people pay off
> > > > their mortgages, which would enable them to do other things.
> > > >
> > > > We'll see.
> > > >
> > > > Actuary science is a pretty good career, but to make the truly
> > > > big bucks, I need to see if I can't break into investment
> > > > banking.
> > > >
> > > > Investment banking is buying and selling stocks and bonds,
> > > > mutual funds and the like, raising capital for corporations,
> > > > and the buying out and merging of corporations.
> > > >
> > > > Since the Glass Steagall Banking Act of 1933 was repealed in
> > > > 1999, you can be ALL THREE: an insurance corporation, retail
> > > > bank, and investment bank all in one, thus concentrating the
> > > > wealth as much as possible
> > > >
> > > > So long as you are wise, responsible, and judicious with the
> > > > money saved, concentrating the wealth in a single place like
> > > > this is theoretically a good thing, in that you can then make
> > > > bigger deals and give better rates to your clients.
> > > >
> > > > A cooperative bank is a good idea, and I'll certainly look into
> > > > it, but I'm also looking at a hybrid system as well, where it's
> > > > one third consumer's cooperative, one third worker's
> > > > cooperative, and one third traditional joint-stock corporation.
> > > >
> > > > We'll see.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have not decided exactly what I want to do, but I'm
> > > > considering the concept of a geek/hacker and furry-oriented
> > > > credit union that eventually expands into a hybrid cooperative
> > > > bank.
> > > >
> > > > It would make more money than game middleware, as much fun as
> > > > that would be. No, why not reach for the stars?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So basically, my TENTATIVE plan is to become a financial
> > > > actuary, do that for about 10 years, build up money, then found
> > > > a credit union oriented around artists, geeks/hackers, and
> > > > furries, make that my niche to start out with, maybe even
> > > > partner with DeviantArt or Electronic Frontier Foundation?
> > > > Along the next 10 years, I'd eventually mutate the credit union
> > > > into a hybrid semi-cooperative bank and insurance corporation.
> > > >
> > > > If I follow this plan, I would specialize in pet insurance,
> > > > mortgages and loans for housing cooperatives, and merges and
> > > > acquisitions related to cooperatives of any kind. I need a
> > > > niche if I am to survive financially.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, we'll see how I'm going to make the money in order to reach
> > > > for the stars, but even if I DONT end up being capable of
> > > > colonizing the moon, I can still do a LOT of good,
> > > > strengthening our culture and society here on Earth doing my
> > > > utter best to try.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 29 Aug[masked]:56:56 -0400
> > > > Amaroq <[address removed]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > There's something I want to say here that would probably be
> > > > > more fitting as a response to the previous topic. But it
> > > > > would be negative if I brought it up there, and positive if I
> > > > > brought it up here, so I choose to do it here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Someone said that greed is one of the things that will
> > > > > destroy the human race. But THIS is what greed really is.
> > > > > Just wanting something for yourself. Having an ambition and
> > > > > following it. If you remove all of the negatives that people
> > > > > always package in with that concept, greed is really a good
> > > > > thing. Greed brought us every innovation we have, and lifted
> > > > > our standard of living from the point where we were dying in
> > > > > our teens and twenties to the point where we can relax on
> > > > > over 100 degree days due to air conditioning, electricity,
> > > > > and we have this amazing system called the internet, and
> > > > > computers that we're using to instantly talk to each other
> > > > > right now. Etc etc etc etc etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > People wanting something for themselves and working for it is
> > > > > what lifted us up. Not what will destroy us. Whether it's
> > > > > Henry Ford inventing the assembly line, or his employees
> > > > > working on it. Everyone who wants something and works for it
> > > > > not only lifts themselves, but lifts society up as a
> > > > > secondary consequence. So dream big, and if you really think
> > > > > you can do it, pursue those dreams. Who knows. You might be
> > > > > the, or one of the, people who does finally bring the rest of
> > > > > us to the moon someday.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > (It's not in a bank's greedy self-interest to lend to people
> > > > > who can't pay it back. Because if the person doesn't pay it
> > > > > back, the bank loses money. It's traditionally the bank's own
> > > > > ass on the line when they lend, which means they have to be
> > > > > careful about who they lend it to. But government guaranteed
> > > > > loans, the existence of the Fed, and other interventions in
> > > > > the economy, made it so the banks didn't have to worry about
> > > > > going under if they made bad loans. Essentially, some goody
> > > > > two-shoes said "It's greedy and evil that banks won't lend to
> > > > > people who can't afford it",  implemented a government policy
> > > > > that makes it so banks can/have to lend to those who can't
> > > > > afford it, and now we're blaming the banks instead of the
> > > > > government, where the blame really lies.)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------
> > > > > ~Amaroq Wolf
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > >  From: Keeko <[address removed]>
> > > > > To: [address removed]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 29,[masked]:17 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [furries-290] A Few Ambitions
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the idea. XD It's not a bad thing to have such lofty
> > > > > goals, I totally want to see moon colonies happen, and I wish
> > > > > you the best of luck! On Aug 28,[masked]:04 PM, "Alex Maurin"
> > > > > <[address removed]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And now for something completely different:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >http://www.spacex.com/falcon_heavy.php
> > > > > >
> > > > > >What do you guys think about the idea of a lunar colony
> > > > > >complete with hotels and condos?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Would you consider moving to the moon?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The colonies would probably be underground and pressurized,
> > > > > >and the industry would largely the mining of titanium and
> > > > > >exotic metals, and maybe even helium-3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Although helium-3 is theoretical, the titanium export would
> > > > > >bring in the money necessary to build in enough
> > > > > >manufacturing equipment and planetary support to construct
> > > > > >additional pylons-- i mean factories on the moon, and allow
> > > > > >us to build entire cities with multiple mining operations
> > > > > >across the lunar surface.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Something I'm going to shoot for with my degree in
> > > > > >mathematics is to attempt building up enough capital to
> > > > > >found a lunar colony.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yes, I know it's highly ambitious, but I have an actual shot
> > > > > >at doing it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >With a degree in mathematics, i can balance between finance
> > > > > >and actuary science, and astrophysics and aeronautics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >This way, i can make the money necessary to get the funding
> > > > > >i need to actually put together a business plan to colonize
> > > > > >the moon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I can see it now: low gravity bouncing fursuiters parading
> > > > > >in a space hotel on the moon.. x3
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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