Re: [houston-php] What are good Houston PHP salaries?

From: Chris O.
Sent on: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:54 AM
That sounds like a story of an bad technology / management decision; not indicative of the entire Houston IT economy.

High-paying PHP jobs are out there, but like most other high-paying jobs you won't find them on public job boards. ��This is true everywhere - but it's especially true in this town - it's often about "who you know."

-- Chris

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Ted Smith <[address removed]> wrote:
��Um, the reverse is true.
��
I worked for a ~$350 million/year ecommerce company based in Houston.�� They've placed on the "Internet Retailer 500" designation several years.�� Are there any larger pure ecommerce there??�� They had been using LAMP *quite* successfully and their only problem with it was a serious lack of knowledge and whole host of religiously-held anti-PHP bias.
��
A new CIO came on board and decided that the 10+ year platform would be rewritten, from scratch, to ASP.NET.�� Two years later, they managed to port the product and category pages, but that's all it seems to be to me (I could be wrong).�� Their international site appears to still be running PHP, so if you find out who it is, you can compare all that they've done.
��
It was sad because I really liked that job; in the end, the dev team went from 6 PHP to 2, myself and another, the workload was overwhelming, pay subpar, and the writing was on the wall.�� The other guy went away a short time later, and then, once again, there was no one left at the company who understood the monolithic PHP codebase, which is probably why it seems so little has changed since I left.
��
What I learned is that while adopting PHP is free, it is not worth the risk.�� But PHP is **so** bad that spending hundreds of thousands of dollars JUST on ASP.NET infrastructure (SQL Server licenses, etc.) during the recession is worth it, because PHP isn't enterprisey enough for huge ecoms.
��
----- Original message -----
From: "Clint Valusek" <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Date: Wed, 20 Oct[masked]:47:47 -0400
Subject: Re: [houston-php] What are good Houston PHP salaries?
��
I am going to push back on the idea that Houston doesn't have a tech scene. The last couple of post on this mailing list refutes that point. The scene might not be aIl that active, but nevertheless it does exist.
��
I have seen some really good stuff come out of the list in just the last week.��
��
To the retraining point, its obvious to anyone that knows what they are doing that the languages only give you��syntactic��sugar. And, some of that syntactic sugar can provide an epiphany for a new concept. So while this is a PHP mailing list, I would recommend learning as many languages as you can because there are paradigm shifts to be had. Yes the bulk of it will come from the first couple of languages, but ��there are new tricks to be learned from new technologies.
That said... Eric might have something of a point in that companies do show a consistent trend of hiring younger more targeted resources. They want to hire someone that has 3-5 years in a specific technology that they want them to write code for. HR types don't always know that a 10+ year vet can run all over a 3 year vet even in a language that they just learned over the last 2 weekends by reading the appropriate technical resource. ��Look at the comments here if you don't believe me ...��http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/03/06/13/0034204.shtml
��
There are numerous companies here in town using PHP. The reason you won't see many companies "upgrade" a working application (or even one with a couple flaws) from early .NET to PHP is because its just too much risk for any corporation to take on that isn't firmly aware at the top what kind of risk they are assuming. Especially because the immediate gains are usually some minimal licensing costs. To be short, the ROI is very low.
��
And to the OP's point, yes... what you have stated seems to be true. Keep in mind... while I have nothing to back this up, I know housing prices to be higher in Dallas.
��
P.S. There are good Joomla developers?

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Will Beazley <[address removed]> wrote:
If you we are adding topics then:

1. Engineering Economics (or any Non-Keynesian Economic methods) ;
2. Software Engineering;

And any of these disciplines can be self-taught; further if you teach yourself there is no-ceiling to how far you can go.
��

��


On 10/19/10 12:39 PM, Eric Shafer wrote:
I like Will's list of requirements:
  • Principles of Computer Science (basic programming);
  • Data Structures;
  • Computer Science Theory (state machines etc.)
  • Algorithm Analysis
  • (Logic or Discrete Math)
I'd add to that Databases and Object Oriented Development. ��And I certainly agree that if you have those things, moving from tech to tech is pretty straight forward, though becoming really effective with a particular framework can take months even for a very experienced developer. ��(For example, try moving from Hibernate in Java to building a��persistence��engine in .Net)
��
But, consider that a lot of "developers" won't have those basics. ��Maybe only a introduction or they come from a less��rigorous��background. ��For example, when I was at Shell, there were a number of developers who weren't strong on data structures and recursion. ��They did a fine job of modifying the home brewed app we had, but chaos would ensue with even the slightest changes in technology (migrating to .net from VB6 for example.).

Regards,
Eric
______________
Eric Shafer
President
Click and Create
Ranked by the Houston Business Journal as
"One of the Largest Web Design Firms in Houston"

twitter: @webyadayada
wk:[masked]
2400 Augusta Ste 369
Houston, TX 77057



On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Will Beazley <[address removed]> wrote:
After 15 years this IT stuff, there is certain point you reach that you can migrate to new platform with minimal training. (minimal training in my mind is only learning the nuances particular to the new language or platform)

How long would it take an unemployed Java developer to be able to write .Net?

A PERL scripter can make worthwhile PHP in just day(s).

As long as you have the core:
Principles of Computer Science (basic programming);
Data Structures;
Computer Science Theory (state machines etc.)
Algorithm Analysis
(Logic or Discrete Math)

If you are really strong in at least one language or platform there isn't a whole that you cannot learn.

By the third language you are just learning syntax, seeing everything as being analogous.

All that said, there shall always remain things that are very hard and because they are exclusive and you cannot migrate with the reuse of past skills. If you know Java or .Net you are not easily going to be able to write firmware or know how to write for TinyOS(wireless sensor devices) in NesC because the fundamentals don't have all the abstractions that Java and .Net folks are used to.

Just my humble opinions.

On 10/19/10 11:41 AM, Eric Shafer wrote:
One thought I had when reading Will's reply is that I am not sure I agree that IT staff can easily jump from tech to tech, and certainly I don't think the impression from the people doing the hiring is that. ��Take a look at just content managements systems, for example. ��If I know a really good Joomla developer, I can't necessarily get her to deliver on a Drupal project without a fair amount of retraining. ��I know that is not a long term view, but I think IT hiring is more about right now skills than the potential to develop good developers.
��
Also, I think there is a lot more Microsoft (.Net, SharePoint and even old fashion ASP and VB) because Houston is so heavy on Oil companies. ��For the enterprise, unless you are constantly updating a public facing website, I don't get the feeling��companies��have moved over to PHP. ��They just keep updating existing apps.
��
Anyone have experience with Houston vs Dallas on salaries for .Net developers and Project Managers they want to share?

Regards,
Eric
______________
Eric Shafer
President
Click and Create
Ranked by the Houston Business Journal as
"One of the Largest Web Design Firms in Houston"

twitter: @webyadayada
wk:[masked]
2400 Augusta Ste 369
Houston, TX 77057



On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Will Beazley <[address removed]> wrote:
I can't speak for PHP, but UNIX/Solaris/Linux are ~20K higher in Ft. Worth than Houston.

Wages, in the absence of price controls, are reflection of what the market will bear.

My suspicions include:
1.a. Greater Pool of folks in Houston for niche market by virtue of a Larger City (less scarcity/greater supply);
1.b. The importation of Brits and other foreign Labor by Petro Sector companies (less scarcity/greater supply);
2. Fewer (Banking, etc) Data Centers in Houston? (Less Demand);

Since there are so many refineries along the Energy Corridor (Louisiana; Beaumont; Katy) there also greater supply.

Replace Data Centers with development.��

Because of the proclivity of IT folks to jump among IT skills you could presume that Shell Scripter may do PERL, may do PHP, may do Java, may do C#, may do Qt/C++, may do .Net;
Otherwise said, Flexible IT can drive down wages beyond their numbers because they can do so many things.




On 10/16/10 11:41 PM, Ted Smith wrote:
Hi all,
��
I grew up in Houston, but I have traveled the country for my career.
��
I'm a 12 year PHP guru, working for clients ranging from top ecommerce Fortune 50 to the Marines to the Executive branch of the federal government. ��I've worked in California, Texas, DC, and Chicago, but I cannot find a decent paying ��job in Houston since I left there a few years ago.
��
I was just offered a job as a senior team lead for a major corporation in Houston, but the salary was "fixed" at $85,000. ��That's still the most I've ever seen in Houston, but just 300 miles north, in Dallas, I'm making a solid $100,000 w/ $20,000 bonus, for a non-lead position, and there are several such paying jobs available.
��
So what is the prevailing wage around there for upper-1% PHP devs? ��I'd say $70-85,000. ��Why do you stay?
��
Ted
��
--
Theodore R. Smith
[address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ted Smith ([address removed]) from Houston PHP Users Group.
To learn more about Ted Smith, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]


-- 

Will Beazley
Information Assets, Inc.
[address removed]
[masked]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Will Beazley ([address removed]) from Houston PHP Users Group.
To learn more about Will Beazley , visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Eric Shafer ([address removed]) from Houston PHP Users Group.
To learn more about Eric Shafer, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Will Beazley ([address removed]) from Houston PHP Users Group.
To learn more about Will Beazley , visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Eric Shafer ([address removed]) from Houston PHP Users Group.
To learn more about Eric Shafer, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Will Beazley ([address removed]) from Houston PHP Users Group.
To learn more about Will Beazley , visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Clint Valusek ([address removed]) from Houston PHP Users Group.
To learn more about Clint Valusek, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]
--
Theodore R. Smith
[address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Ted Smith ([address removed]) from Houston PHP Users Group.
To learn more about Ted Smith, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York[masked] | [address removed]

Our Sponsors

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy