Re: Organizations' Responsibility For Email Sender (was Re: [ia-14] Apologies)

From: Chris P.
Sent on: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:44 PM
 Hah! Unified Email-Goof Alert System (UE-GAS) love it. :-)

This is a pretty good thought, Jonathan. Again, this would be on the client, though. Not something the service provider can control.

As we go about this discussion, I'm noticing some interesting things with these emails. I can see that gmail knows the email came from you (Jonathan) as it gives me the green indicator that you're online, but if I select "reply-to-all" only the ia-14@meetup address shows up in the recipients field. In fact, I don't get the fail-safe "repy-to-all." This probably because the IA-14 address is the only address in the email header set as a reply-to.

This is strange. Jonathans' email address should at least be one of the addresses in the recipient fields; either CC or another address in the "To."

@jcvaughan I totally see the frustrations that there is no other option without "going under the hood" (actually was seeing your frustrations before which is what is leading me to problem being on the server configuration).

Additionally, I'm receiving copies of the email that are sent from my address.... wierd

Are there any hard-core server admins on this list that could provide some insight?

^CP

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:27 PM, jonathanpberger <[address removed]> wrote:
I'll toss another tangent into the talk of "common email goofs":
failing to add an attachment when writing "please see attached" is
another common UI failing of client-independent email.  Is there some
way to address both?  IIRC there's a firefox add-on that scans gmail
for the word "attachment" and throws a javascript "are you sure?"
message if you try to send an email with the word "attachment" but
without a file attached.  Maybe a similar technique could be used for
"reply/reply all" goofs?  How would you test for that kind of thing?
(Are there common words or constructions that could be helpful?) Would
the alert be too annoying ot be worth it?  Might it be useful to hav
these things come together, as a Unified Email Goof Alert System?

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Chris Pall? <[address removed]> wrote:
> Hi All,
> This is a discussion list and therefore works differently than a forum or a
> board. Email clients (the interface to the discussion list) are not all the
> same and UI functionality is frequently different from client to client.  I
> use gMail's Web UI almost exclusively and reply-to-all is in a drop-down
> next to the "reply" button. If I hit "reply" which is clearly available and
> forget to secondarily select reply-to-all, gMail gives me a fail-safe to
> easily change to "reply-to-all" by bringing it closer to the context of
> writing the reply. So, email systems are neither uniform nor consistent and
> Meetup cannot control this.
>
> It's clear that a "reply-to" action should default to sending back to the
> entire list and that it's the sender's responsibility to ensure they're
> sending to the appropriate recipients (it's their email, from their email
> client).
>
> While I respectfully disagree about those issues, I do agree that Meetup
> could use some improvement in their handling of list software. Just not sure
> if adding yet another option for the members to modify and think about is
> the key. I think the issue is with the implementation and configuration of
> the discussion list software itself.  So, maybe a valuable discussion to
> have would be about interpretation of list-server implementation best
> practices.
> Is the solution to put the burden of additional account management on the
> membership? What do you propose the new options to be?
>
> Chris Pall?
>[masked]
> http://linkedin.com/in/chrispalle
> http://twitter.com/chrispalle
> Please pardon any foggy grammar and glaring typos. This was sent from my
> mobile during travels.
> On Feb 9, 2009, at 10:36 PM, jcvaughan <[address removed]> wrote:
>
> Reply & Reply All are well-understood, consistent email tools that are used
> effectively by millions of people for a broad range of communication tasks
> every day.  I use them regularly on other discussion boards: They allow me
> to do "broadcast" and "one-on-one" messaging - both actions readily
> available at the click of a button.  Works great.
>
> There's really nothing wrong with having Reply All as the default option in
> a discussion list environment. The problem with this model is that it's the
> only option: If you want to reply one-on-one to the individual who posted
> the message, it's darned difficult.   Even worse; the system is actively
> deceptive:  Doesn't matter if you click "Reply", you still get "Reply All"
> as the result. You actually have to go in "under the hood" and copy/paste
> from Message Properties in order to finagle a one-on-one message.
>
> No, of course it isn't the organization's responsibility to "control" the
> sender or the recipient.  But it IS the organization's responsibility to
> provide a set of tools that allow us to perform the 2 major tasks on a
> discussion board:  Reply and Reply All.  And the UI should be both
> consistent (with every other email system in the world, for instance) and
> trustworthy (If I choose to click "Reply" rather than "Reply All" - Please
> just do it without any chicanery.)  It's really not that hard.
>
> The response "It happens all the time" is .... well .... I guess that's the
> point, isn't it?
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: =?ANSI_X[masked]?Q?Chris_Pall=3F?=
> To: [address removed]
> Sent: Monday, February 09,[masked]:33 PM
> Subject: Organizations' Responsibility For Email Sender (was Re: [ia-14]
> Apologies)
> This is a good topic for this list.
>
> This may be presumptuous, and apologies if I'm wrong, but did the email come
> from a personal email client? If so, is an organization liable for
> controlling the recipient of an email coming from a sender's personal email
> client?
>
> Thing is, this is a discussion list. By default, a usability *plus* would be
> that all reply email go back to the discussion. The discussion lists that
> default to replying to only the sender and not the list adds a burden on the
> user to either a) choose "reply all" which is a secondary action or b)
> require the user to manually add the list's address or c) - the worst -
> after the mistake of sending to only the sender, require that another email
> be resent to the group, which will require a copy-and-paste from an email
> that must be retrieved from the "sent" bin. Now, _that's_ not user-friendly.
>
> Anything off-topic, or personal that the sender doesn't want to share,
> should be double-checked by the person sending the email.
>
> And to be clear, I wasn't offended when I saw the email come through. It
> wasn't that big of deal really because I know, it happens all the time.
>
> Anyone else care to chime in?
>
> ^CP
>
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 8:10 PM, jcvaughan <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>> Well, it seems our little episode has now unleashed multiple mass-spams to
>> the entire list.  Don't know that this is the appropriate venue to discuss
>> the issue, but it IS an unavoidable issue and here we are...
>>
>> The "usability fail" is clearly Meetup's.  And - no - none of us should be
>> obliged to QA our messages in order to overcome Meetup's poor implementation
>> before we either send or reply.  It's their messaging system and it should
>> work.
>>
>> Meetup, please fix it.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: =?ANSI_X[masked]?Q?Chris_Pall=3F?=
>> To: [address removed]
>> Sent: Monday, February 09,[masked]:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ia-14] Apologies
>> No worries. I'm sure it's happened to most everyone. I know I have.
>>
>> That footer's actually from Meetup. So, the usability fail is not really
>> on the writer, but then.... where would the warning go? It's likely that
>> it's automatically added as it's being sent through their (Meetups) email
>> server. If it were put in the top, it could potentially mess up the
>> messages. Imagine having to see that block of text with every email you get
>> from the list.
>>
>> Maybe it's just good practice to look at your "To" field before hitting
>> send. :-)
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:07 PM, jcvaughan <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>
>>> My apologies for Spamming the World with my response to Laura's job
>>> posting.  I thought I was replying only to Laura and did not hit "Reply
>>> All".  The email engine insisted on sending copies to everyone on the meetup
>>> list.  That's NOT how I like to do things.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, Laura's disclaimer "Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your
>>> message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])"
>>> appears as a footnote only at the very end of her message .... (Scroll down
>>> forever to find it)
>>>
>>> And that's why we're ...  uhhhhh .... "usability experts".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Laura
>>> To: [address removed]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29,[masked]:45 PM
>>> Subject: [ia-14] Job: Customer Experience Architect and Analyst-NYC
>>>
>>> My client in Midtown Manhattan's Customer Experience team is responsible
>>> for creating a world-class online experience for a leading global news
>>> analysis provider with a sophisticated, demanding and international
>>> audience. The team contributes to an ambitious online strategy with
>>> experience planning and customer insights, and executes on the strategy with
>>> information architecture, interaction design and visual design.
>>>
>>> The Experience Architect and Analyst plays a key role on the team in
>>> guiding the way that key projects take shape. This role requires strong
>>> quantitative analytical and wire-framing capabilities.  We are looking for a
>>> skilled practitioner with a high level of enthusiasm for our brand and
>>> caring for customer experience practice, who will define quantitative
>>> analytics studies, analyse data, and create effective, attractive and
>>> intuitive user interfaces.
>>>
>>> The Experience Architect and Analyst works with editorial and product
>>> teams to understand business goals and with designers and developers to
>>> guide the prototyping and implementation process.
>>>
>>> Projects include web sites, applications, products and services for other
>>> delivery platforms.
>>>
>>> This position may require travel to London once per quarter, on average.
>>>
>>> Key accountabilities
>>>
>>> ?         Gather business requirements
>>>
>>> ?         Oversee the design  and execution of quantitative research,
>>> including web statistics and surveys
>>>
>>> ?         Help create and prioritize web statistics analysis for user
>>> experience, including integration with our user feedback  collection and
>>> survey tools (OpinionLab and iPerceptions)
>>>
>>> ?         Help refine the customer experience processes and practices
>>>
>>> ?         Translate strategic themes, user research results and
>>> competitive research results into tactical designs
>>>
>>> ?         Develop interaction flows, wire frames and schematic designs
>>>
>>> ?         Advocate for and champion user experience
>>>
>>> ?         Maintain and share awareness of industry trends and new
>>> technologies and explore those that would benefit the business and the
>>> audience
>>>
>>> Skills and capabilities profile
>>>
>>> Education and training
>>>
>>> ?         Bachelor's degree required, master's degree desirable
>>>
>>> ?         Degree or study in information architecture or design,
>>> human-computer interaction (HCI), information design, or a related field
>>>
>>> ?         Active, current participation in relevant professional training
>>> (classes, industry conferences)
>>>
>>> ?         A plus: Study in statistics
>>>
>>> Previous work experience
>>>
>>> ?         Minimum 4 to 6 years of experience as an information architect,
>>> analyst or similar role
>>>
>>> ?         One or more years of experience designing and executing
>>> quantitative user studies (web analytics, polls/surveys)
>>>
>>> ?         Experience analysing quantitative data and translating it into
>>> actionable information
>>>
>>> ?         Demonstrated ability to produce user-centred solutions as
>>> evidenced by a portfolio or samples of work
>>>
>>> ?         Proven experience creating successful, large-scale,
>>> consumer-facing sites
>>>
>>> ?         Experience in gathering and documenting requirements for
>>> web-based and digital products
>>>
>>> ?         Proven experience in working collaboratively with
>>> cross-functional teams
>>>
>>> ?         Familiarity with technical issues around web development and
>>> ability to work constructively with development teams
>>>
>>> ?         A plus: Experience designing news sites
>>>
>>> ?         A plus: Experience with research or design in social media, or
>>> with mobile design
>>>
>>> ?         A plus: Experience with CMS migration
>>>
>>> ?         A plus: Consulting or agency experience
>>>
>>> ?         A plus: High-end IT experience (e.g. Google, IBM, Microsoft)
>>>
>>> ?         A plus: Teaching UCD-related courses or programs
>>>
>>> ?         A plus: Experience applying CX methodologies in an Agile
>>> development process
>>>
>>> Laura Hunter
>>>
>>> Vivid Resources
>>>
>>> office[masked]
>>>
>>> cell[masked]
>>>
>>> fax[masked]
>>>
>>> [address removed]
>>>
>>> www.vividresources.com
>>>
>>> What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to
>>> what lies within us.
>>>
>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
>>> this mailing list ([address removed])
>>> This message was sent by Laura ([address removed]) from The
>>> New York City Information Architecture Meetup Group.
>>> To learn more about Laura, visit his/her member profile
>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>>>
>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
>>> this mailing list ([address removed])
>>> This message was sent by jcvaughan ([address removed]) from The New
>>> York City Information Architecture Meetup Group.
>>> To learn more about jcvaughan, visit his/her member profile
>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>>>
>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Pall?
>> Online Experience Professional
>> [address removed]
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispalle
>> http://www.twitter.com/chrispalle
>> AIM: chrispalle
>> gTalk: chris.palle
>> TokBox: http://tokbox/TheUXWorkshop
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
>> this mailing list ([address removed])
>> This message was sent by Chris Pall? ([address removed]) from The New
>> York City Information Architecture Meetup Group.
>> To learn more about Chris Pall?, visit his/her member profile
>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>>
>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
>> this mailing list ([address removed])
>> This message was sent by jcvaughan ([address removed]) from The New
>> York City Information Architecture Meetup Group.
>> To learn more about jcvaughan, visit his/her member profile
>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>>
>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>
>
> --
> Chris Pall?
> Online Experience Professional
> [address removed]
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispalle
> http://www.twitter.com/chrispalle
> AIM: chrispalle
> gTalk: chris.palle
> TokBox: http://tokbox/TheUXWorkshop
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
> this mailing list ([address removed])
> This message was sent by Chris Pall? ([address removed]) from The New
> York City Information Architecture Meetup Group.
> To learn more about Chris Pall?, visit his/her member profile
> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>
> Meetup Support: [address removed]
> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>
>
>
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
> this mailing list ([address removed])
> This message was sent by jcvaughan ([address removed]) from The New
> York City Information Architecture Meetup Group.
> To learn more about jcvaughan, visit his/her member profile
> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>
> Meetup Support: [address removed]
> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA ent to everyone on this mailing list
> ([address removed])
> This message was sent by jcvaughan ([address removed]) from The New
> York City Information Architecture Meetup Group.
> To learn more about jcvaughan, visit his/her member profile
> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>
> Meetup Support: [address removed]
> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>
>
>
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on
> this mailing list ([address removed])
> This message was sent by Chris Pall? ([address removed]) from The New
> York City Information Architecture Meetup Group.
> To learn more about Chris Pall?, visit his/her member profile
> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>
> Meetup Support: [address removed]
> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA



--
_________________________

http://www.jonathanpberger.com
[masked]
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--
Chris Pall?
Online Experience Professional
[address removed]
http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispalle
http://www.twitter.com/chrispalle
AIM: chrispalle
gTalk: chris.palle
TokBox: http://tokbox/TheUXWorkshop


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