Re: [ruby-84] Pinpoint Resources = Unethical Slimy Douchebags

From: Morten B.
Sent on: Friday, January 4, 2008 7:07 PM

On Jan 4, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Colin wrote:

Of course that raises the question - who are all these companies who are using these recruiters.

Well, in this case it's not hard to guess at all: The LA Times. Shame on them for working with these clowns.

Bottom line my friends is that many of the people who 'knock' the recruiters turn to the cheap ones when the want to fill a vacancy. Very few companies go to the trouble to find out how a recruiter works - all they want is the best person at the lowest cost with the smallest recruiters margin. Assume you know that many recruiters will withhold applicants from the client if they have already submitted a few resumes - 'they don't want to confuse the client'..... If the client says 'no' then like magic they have another applicant that as 'just come in'.

However recruiters are just playing the game, of the companies that use them - and they have mortgages to pay with their commission only remuneration.

Yeah, I agree, which is why I said any tech company worth its salt does its own recruiting. We're small, but invested thousands of dollars in developing a system that would specfically draw the kinds of people we're interested onto our radar. We've taken some knocks along the way, and made some dubious decisions, but since we made those mistakes ourselves we've been able to analyze it and adjust our process. It's not perfect, but it evolves and in the end saves us a lot of money.

I am kind of at a loss as to why anyone would use a recruiting company to hire Ruby devs, though. Generally, these companies barely have a clue what they're talking about when pimping their armies of jobless .NET and Java guys, so it's hard to belive any of them could tell their ass from a RoR ninja.

There are exceptions, of course, like Quality Humans which is run by totally respectable people, and have a rep for getting people quality gigs. If we could afford it, I might consider using those guys myself, but then again we have our system and it seems to be getting us good prospects. 

In the final analysis though, I think the key is really knowing as a company what kind of person and skills profile fits within your team. That goes way deeper than a resume - it's about analyzing your whole history of hires/employees - and figuiring out what makes a team member a rockstar vs. a dud. Usually companies go to recruiters instead of taking the time to figure this out, even though it should be a prerequisite for engaging one. Recruiting companies - even good ones - are sales people trying to peddle a particular product to you, and it's on you to sift through the crap and dig up the gold.

/M.



On Jan 4,[masked]:21 PM, Robert in OC < [address removed]> wrote:
Is it the recruiter company thats corrupt, or the industry???

Just my thoughts, I see nothing but the same as what you describe from almost all recruiters I go
through...

One recruiter in one conversations says he has been working for the same place for 8+ years.  But
I have cards from him with 4 different companies.  He has been working for the same company for 8+
years, if that one burns you, then he just switches cards to "his new company" an pulls the same
games and lies......

Lovely world of lies we live in......



--- Morten Bagai <[address removed]> wrote:

> So,
>
> I am  part-owner of a small Ruby on Rails shop in downtown Los
> Angeles. I just received a call from someone claiming to have an
> "important personal call" for one my developers.
>
> I sensed something was fishy when the guy refused to say who he was
> or what it was regarding, so I actually stood next to my employee
> while he was taking it.
>
> So it turns out it was a recruiter from Pinpoint trying to snatch one
> my guys who repeatedly assured that guy that he was happy in his job
> here, and planned to stay here for a long time. Being the nice kid he
> is, my guy offered to point him to some other people who might be
> interested. My employee also asked were he might have gotten his
> contact info from, and he replied workingwithrails.com, which my
> employee thought was odd since that mentions nothing about him
> looking for other opportunities.
>
> I decided to call the guy back to tell him what I thought of these
> practices, and the guy said "well, actually I was referred to your
> employee by a friend of his who said he's looking for a new job".
> Nice one, since seconds before he admitted to scraping my employees
> *work* number from a profile on workingwithrails.com and cold-calling.
>
> So, not only questionable ethics but also an outright liar.
>
> Anyway, I think this serves as a great reminder of why recruiters,
> especially Pinpoint, are generally scum and why any software company
> worth its salt does its own recruiting.
>
> /M.
>
>
>
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--
Colin Faith
"Do today what can be done tomorrow"



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