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RE: [philosophy-178] Evolution is not dead!

From: Steve W.
Sent on: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 7:04 PM
Hello all

I agree with Karen. Of course it's easy to feel upset or angry, we can't
help that sometimes, but I think it's worth all of us trying hard as we can
to make our points politely when we come to use this message board.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf
Of Karen
Sent: 03 July[masked]:04
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [philosophy-178] Evolution is not dead!


Hi,

It is too much to ask that arguments be offered in a polite format? I, 
for one, am very much put off by comments like: " Just playing word 
games and dropping [t]he names of long dead philosophers who have not 
got the benefit of today's science"  because seems unnecessarily rude 
and argumentative. I know that discussions of philosophy can certainly 
stir things up, but it would be great if we would all try to think 
about how it would feel to us if the comments we were making were 
instead addressed to us.
Thanks,
Karen


-----Original Message-----
From: Dominic Colgan <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Mon, 2 Jul[masked]pm
Subject: Re: [philosophy-178] Evolution is not dead!



Andromeda,

???????????????? Rationality does not guarantee survival as a 
species.For crying out loud our star the Sun is not going to survive so 
how can we.I must also knock on the head this idea that the human brain 
is the pinnacle of evolution and will always ensure our dominance.

If an Asteroid hits the Earth or Bird flu/Ebola or other virus/bacteria 
mutate in the right way we are history.The dinasaurs dominated 
300million years.We have been around less than 1

Ants are likely to outlast us

Why are we talking Evolution.Evolution like Cosmology has philosophical 
consequences and implications.Thats what makes philosophy interesting 
to me.Just?playing word games and dropping he?names of long dead 
philosophers who had not got the benefit of todays science is assenine?

Dom



----Original Message----
From: [address removed]
Date: 02/07/[masked]:40
To: <[address removed]>
Subj: Re: [philosophy-178] Evolution is not dead!


What is right is what rational, and what is rational is what?preserves 
us in mind and body.? Clearly the Aztecs and Easter Islanders were not 
rational, for they are now extinct.?

?

Why are we talking about evolution?? The story is still being played 
out.? We won't know the full story until we have stopped evolving.? 
When we have stopped evolving we will be dead and not in a position to 
ask, answer or understand the question!

?

What was the question anyway?? "Is evolution dead?"?? How can a mere 
concept?be dead or alive??

?


http://uk.groups....­

GENERAL PHILOSOPHICAL DEBATE

?

http://uk.groups....­

PHILOSOPHICAL DEBATE FOR THE SINGLETON

?

http://www.1party...­

TRUST IN YOUR PRINCIPLES, NOT PARTIES OR POLITICIANS!


?


----- Original Message -----

From: Maliu

To: [address removed]

Sent: Sunday, July 01,[masked]:57 PM

Subject: RE: [philosophy-178] Evolution is not dead!




?

?

?

?

?

?

You are very correct in that evolution does not give any

indications as to what is right. The planet earth certainly

would be very worried as to what mankind is doing to it.

?

?

And unless we prove otherwise we may not be fit for it.

Similarly we have to be fit for any type of social , intellectual

form that we aspire to. But non of these formations? are

coming with a guarantee as to their durability. The mathematical

fact is that they will come to an end , as all formations eventually

die to give way to new life and formations.

?

?

Man however has the problem with the Endings, history as written

Is full of cliff hangers.? We have done lots of wrong in the form

Of self ?righteousness and keep doing it. ?My belief is that greatest

direction in responsibility would be to be informed and interested.

?

?

Is this talking Evolution , I believe so. ?Some people have reworded

Evolution in terms of Conductivity and how, Information can be

Facilitated or hindered in its flow, in order to bring about timely

changes. In this settings Reality becomes the sacred. Itself not a

value to aspire to, but a principle.?

?

As you say evolution or anything else does not spell out ?

right and wrong , this is just an indication that survival is

harder and not as an Infantile a business as previously

?imagined.? I really think ?some people need to grow out

of Evolution, but obviously the fear makes them to revert back

into the womb of ?dogmatic values.

?

Maliu


> From: [address removed]
> Subject: Re: [philosophy-178] Evolution is not dead!
> To: [address removed]
> Date: Sun, 1 Jul[masked]:57:07 -0400
>
> I think it's interesting that everyone always seems to conceive of
> evolution as progressing towards a better and 'higher' state - I
> don't think it has to - it just progresses to whatever will help it
> survive - this doesn't have anything to do with morality or being
> better, just being more suited to surviving in a particular
> environment. And I would say the same is true physically, socially
> and politically.
>
> We use the term 'evolved' to mean a higher state spiritually,
> morally, etc but this has a different meaning than when its used in
> conjunction with evolution/natural selecion.
>
>
> Kat
>
>
>
> On 30 Jun 2007, at 19:30, Salim wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > I have seens books on amazon about social evolution etc and I think
> > this is a great area for discussion.
> >
> > If people evolve physically, socially, politically etc, who are at
> > the present time on this earth the most evolved?
> >
> > How do you measure/define what more evolved is in terms of non
> > physical evolution?
> >
> > 1. who is the most socially evolved and why? what defined the
> > parameters for it's measurement?
> > 2. who is the most politically evolved and why? what defined the
> > parameters for it's measurement?
> > 3. who is more evolved in terms of self-awareness and why? what are
> > the measurements for self awareness?
> >
> > Who are the people who are defining these definitions which is how
> > to judge humanity at large? do they study us like animals evolved
> > from animals or as human beings who are far above any animal
> > nature? Do they study us as animals struggling to survive or as
> > human beings trying to attain human perfection?
> >
> > Are the definitions and parameters defined by these individuals not
> > just internal perceptions of 'what it is to be a real human being?'
> >
> > If the baselines set for what it is to be a human being is wrong,
> > can the study of the human being and its conclusions ever be 
correct?
> >
> > e.g. Is a man who rides a donkey who shares what little he has ,
> > more socially evolved, than a man in a private jet who squanders
> > wealth regardless of others?
> >
> > e.g. Is a political leader who fights to remove injustice more
> > politically evolved than a political leader who terrorises innocent
> > people to protect his self interests?
> >
> > Is social and political evolution measured by the moral standard of
> > the one who studies you and me? can the correct start and end point
> > of social and political evolution only be made by the one with
> > perfect moral principles? someone with no self interests, no
> > arrogance, no racism, no superiority complex, no preconceptions
> > etc.. etc..? i.e. the one who has annialated the self?
> >
> > Will atoms who study atoms ever understand what it is to be human?
> > can atoms ever attain human perfection?
> >
> > Just my thoughts...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Dave <[address removed]>
> >> Reply-To: [address removed]
> >> To: [address removed]
> >> Subject: [philosophy-178] Evolution is not dead!
> >> Date: Fri, 29 Jun[masked]:56:38 -0400 (EDT)
> >>
> >> It's late in the morning and I'm a little confused.
> >>
> >> I'd like to keep the evolution debate going a little, if no-one
> >> minds.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If I assume that we can evolve physically, emotionally, socially,
> >> politically, spiritually, 'whateverually' - could I still be
> >> considered an
> >> evolutionist?
> >>
> >> Or is the classic understanding primarily associated with the
> >> physical?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hence if the environment made it more likely for the black moths
> >> to succeed,
> >> compared to the white moths. Do we assume that evolution was
> >> separate from
> >> 'intelligence' - ie the white moths didn't choose to go and find
> >> white
> >> flowers but continued to pitch on the trees. If so, then can the
> >> same be
> >> said of people?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ie Is there a fundamental difference for the evolution of
> >> creatures which
> >> are self aware and those which are not.?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please explain.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Dave (obviously still in the process of evolving)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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> >
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