RE: [philosophy-178] discussion on Islam

From: Steve W.
Sent on: Saturday, July 14, 2007 10:25 AM
Salim,

Good points, but you avoided Ivan's questions completely

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf
Of Salim
Sent: 12 July[masked]:47
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [philosophy-178] discussion on Islam

Dear Ivan,

I did not call for the debate/discussion. After attending a few Philosophy 
discussions a few people asked me about Islam/Sufism as I gave a different 
view point of the topics discussed. They then approached Karen with the idea

of discussing 'Myths about Islam' as somethings I discussed surprised them 
as they had read a very different view in the mass media.

I agreed to moderate the discussion. I had no intention of trying to 
convince others or recruit or preach.

It was just a discussion of different viewpoints from a different 
understanding. I think open minded philosophers will try to study and 
analyze different societies and people which in most cases does include 
religion as religion does help to mold societies view points to a lesser or 
greater extent.

With current unfortunate events some thought it may be timely to discuss an 
issue like Islam with the intention of understanding rather than attacking.

I sit with the Buddhists, humnanists, atheists etc and listen to their views

and can discuss issues in an undertstanding way. I regularly attend 
synogogues, sihk temples, churches etc to learn how others worship. I think 
tolerance is the ability to tolerate others who are different not to 
tolerate everyone who is just like ones self.

If we are to view all world views and ideas as 'attacks' on our ideas then I

do not think that any discussions can take place. Discussions are for those 
who a willing to listen to others viewpoints and to walk away as friends 
still standing by their own viewpoints.

Our world is populated with may different ideologies and religions each with

their own moral codes and political system etc.

For me everyone is  'free thinking' , everyone 'uses reason' to come to 
their own decisions as to what they believe is the truth, whether Athiest or

religious.

Just because I or you may not share the same view of reality does not mean i

or you are brainwashed or not free-thinking. If this is the case it applies 
to every other human being except ourselves as no two individuals hold the 
same opinion on every topic.

Even within this forum which i think is mainly Atheist, there are so many 
differing opinions.

Regards


>From: Ivan <[address removed]>
>Reply-To: [address removed]
>To: [address removed]
>Subject: Re: [philosophy-178] discussion on Islam
>Date: Thu, 12 Jul[masked]:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>
>
>?
>
>?
>
>?
>
>?
>
>
>I have just joined the group and on reading
>
>the posted messages was interested to know
>
>of the pending debate on Islam.
>
>?
>
>These are a few questions I would like to
>
>pose at Salim as he suggested there
>
>should be a debate on Islam.
>
>?
>
>I know there are many Moslems in the world
>
>but as we share the same debating group
>
>I would very much to hear Salims opinions
>
>on the following.
>
>?
>
>1/ Does he think it is Right for Moslem Societies to
>
>have The Death Penalty.
>
>?
>
>2/ what does he think of Vegetarianism. I am
>
>a vegetarian and feel that Many animals are
>
>treated with cruelty in the world. Does he think
>
>like wise that Animals in Moslem world are
>
>treated with cruelty.
>
>?
>
>I ask these as Salim is interested in the opinions of
>
>others and ?as a free thinking Individual is searching
>
>for the truth and likewise wishes to persuade others.
>
>?
>
>?
>
>?
>
>Ivan.
>
>
>?
>
>?
>
>________________­________
>
>?
>
>?
>
>?
>
>I agree that this is an important topic. But I think that defining identity
>in terms of our religious affilitations can itself cause problems.
>Andromeda is right to emphasize the word "includes". I would say that
>identity is "coloured by" religious beliefs, but more importantly, we are
>first and foremost part of the one human species. Within that human family
>we choose to be Christians, Agnostics, Humanists, Pagans, or whatever.
>
>Fundamentalism is taking "creation stories" as literal truths.
>
>Janos
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Salim" <[address removed]>
>To: <[address removed]>
>Sent: Monday, July 09,[masked]:42 PM
>Subject: RE: [philosophy-178] discussion on Islam
>
>
> > Andromeda,
> >
> > Love to discuss your views if and when karen schedules it. All views and
> > points are welcome.
> >
> > I am sure people can discuss and agree/disagree within the boundaries of
> > politeness.
> >
> > Look forward to meeting you, as this topic is to be discusses later we
> > will have to wait for the appropriate time.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> >
> >>From: Andromeda <[address removed]>
> >>Reply-To: [address removed]
> >>To: [address removed]
> >>Subject: [philosophy-178] discussion on Islam
> >>Date: Mon,? 9 Jul[masked]:16:19 -0400 (EDT)
> >>
> >>Hello All
> >>
> >>Would be most interested in discussion about Islam.
> >>
> >>I have been contact with Sahib Bleher of the Islamic Party of Britain? 
>who
> >>runs www.islamicparty.com­? -? a very good website run by European
> >>ex-Christian­? Muslims.
> >>
> >>I already have a Yahoo Group up and running:
> >>
> >>http://uk.groups­....
> >>
> >>I will point out that Identity INCLUDES religion - "religare" is Latin 
>for
> >>"to bind" after all.
> >>
> >>Debate is forthright and there will be a few Islamophobic sentiments 
>being
> >>expressed.? If you think you can deal with robust and occasionally 
>hostile
> >>debate, then this may be the place for you!
> >>
> >>I tend to moderate with a light touch and try to see that things do not
> >>get too nasty!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>www.1Party4A­ ll.co.uk
> >>Direct Democracy:
> >>Making the most of our agreement
> >>
> >>
>I agree that this is an important topic. But I think that defining identity
>in terms of our religious affilitations can itself cause problems.
>Andromeda is right to emphasize the word "includes". I would say that
>identity is "coloured by" religious beliefs, but more importantly, we are
>first and foremost part of the one human species. Within that human family
>we choose to be Christians, Agnostics, Humanists, Pagans, or whatever.
>
>Fundamentalism is taking "creation stories" as literal truths.
>
>Janos
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Salim" <[address removed]>
>To: <[address removed]>
>Sent: Monday, July 09,[masked]:42 PM
>Subject: RE: [philosophy-178] discussion on Islam
>
>
> > Andromeda,
> >
> > Love to discuss your views if and when karen schedules it. All views and
> > points are welcome.
> >
> > I am sure people can discuss and agree/disagree within the boundaries of
> > politeness.
> >
> > Look forward to meeting you, as this topic is to be discusses later we
> > will have to wait for the appropriate time.
> >
> > Kind Regards
> >
> >
> >>From: Andromeda <[address removed]>
> >>Reply-To: [address removed]
> >>To: [address removed]
> >>Subject: [philosophy-178] discussion on Islam
> >>Date: Mon,? 9 Jul[masked]:16:19 -0400 (EDT)
> >>
> >>Hello All
> >>
> >>Would be most interested in discussion about Islam.
> >>
> >>I have been contact with Sahib Bleher of the Islamic Party of Britain? 
>who
> >>runs www.islamicparty.com­? -? a very good website run by European
> >>ex-Christian­? Muslims.
> >>
> >>I already have a Yahoo Group up and running:
> >>
> >>http://uk.groups­....
> >>
> >>I will point out that Identity INCLUDES religion - "religare" is Latin 
>for
> >>"to bind" after all.
> >>
> >>Debate is forthright and there will be a few Islamophobic sentiments 
>being
> >>expressed.? If you think you can deal with robust and occasionally 
>hostile
> >>debate, then this may be the place for you!
> >>
> >>I tend to moderate with a light touch and try to see that things do not
> >>get too nasty!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>www.1Party4A­ ll.co.uk
> >>Direct Democracy:
> >>Making the most of our agreement
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>See what you?re getting into?before you go there. Check it out!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>
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