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Re: [atheists-331] YouTube lecture video, "Faith: Pretending to know something you don't know" by Dr. Peter Boghossian

From: user 1.
Sent on: Sunday, January 20, 2013 1:05 PM
Gosh, Bob.  I thought Paul's message was worth thinking about.  I like the idea that atheists may have different points of view, use different nomenclature, yet still arrive at the same place: there is no God.

The only time that I hope (have faith that) atheists will unite unequivocally is when "people of faith" try to insert their faith-based convictions into government, legislation and organizations like the American Medical AssociationOther than that, I'm okay with be-your-own-kind-of atheist.


Maureen



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Terrace <[address removed]>
To: atheists-331 <[address removed]>
Sent: Sun, Jan 20,[masked]:45 am
Subject: Re: [atheists-331] YouTube lecture video, "Faith: Pretending to know something you don't know" by Dr. Peter Boghossian

You want a different outcome so you practice self delusion.

Sorry Paul. This kind of faith doesn't work either. 

Only faith generated from past evidence is acceptable. Even then it might be wrong because probability is never absolute. 

Psychology shows that 'tit for tat' is the most successful strategy. Start out positive but rely on evidence. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 20, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Paul S <[address removed]> wrote:

I like Darrick's posed question more than the video. The video seems to be about attacking the assertion/stereotype that faith must be positive, and the lecturer changing the definition just seems to be a step in the attack. I was never in on the starting assertion, so I am stopping the video after ten minutes.

I find the question interesting because, although I am an atheist, I also have faith. I have faith in people, even strangers. My faith could fit either definition. I usually state it with the first:
"I believe that people will follow through on their commitments to me more often than past evidence shows."

My initial problem with the second (proposed) definition is that the word "know" often connotes black-and-white thinking, whereas to me, and any AI programmer, knowledge is probabilistic. But, if I can get over that hiccup, I like the new definition.
When I (try to) look back on my times of faith objectively, I cannot really discern my belief, only my actions:
"I act--'pretend'--that I have knowledge different from what I actually have."

Since I have now shared my faith with you all, I might as well briefly defend it:
I find that, if after someone comes through for me, he finds out that I was doubting him, then the relationship develops worse than if I was not doubting him. One could counter that I should act rationally and then keep my doubt secret, but I am a very open person bad at keeping secrets. The only way I have had decent success keeping secrets is by changing the truth. I mean "changing the truth" in the RNC 2012 sense: They were lying through their teeth, but not in a way that would set off a polygraph. see Jon Oliver's extraordinary report:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-30-2012/rnc-2012---the-road-to-jeb-bush-2016---we-can-change-that

I also have faith in some sports teams, which has been aggravating Melissa a bunch lately--heathen!--but that is for a different post.

--Paul


On 01/20/[masked]:47 AM, Darrick Fauvel wrote:
Hi Everybody,

I came across an enlightening 38 minute lecture video on YouTube entitled, "Faith: Pretending to know something you don't know" by Dr. Peter Boghossian, so I thought I would share it. I think Dr. Boghossian makes a great case for changing the commonly used definition of faith, "having a belief without evidence," to "pretending to know something you don't know."

What do you think about his proposed definition change?

Also, there are number of other YouTube videos of Dr. Boghossian that you might also like, including:

You can also find more about him on his podcast and website at http://www.philosophynews.com/.

~Darrick




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