Colorado Libertarians Message Board › Climage change -- fact or political manipulation?

Climage change -- fact or political manipulation?

Eva K.
all4thinking
Louisville, CO
Post #: 3
http://denver.yourhub...­

I am trying hard to deal with a bit of a conflict of interest, since Greg works as a sysadmin at NCAR (where protesters are starting to be a factor), but my experience working in research labs is that really, the core of the issue is using fear (once again the Republicans set the example, and the Democrats follow up) to get power, and doling out the money selectively to a community of scientists that has no public funding that doesn't come through the government. This dependence makes it possible for the moneybags to call the shots, and scientists who don't behave (and follow the data wherever it leads) are punished by funding withdrawals.

The question is, when the egos get engaged, folks like Obama and Gore *can't* backtrack on what they've said; they know they'll look even stupider than they already do, so they will crowbar every political tactic they know (I don't envy the folks in the EPA right now, especially those who went there to truly understand environmental issues) to prove they are right, which is, apparently, more important than getting the science right or even close (like "new math").

I think I'd like to get our special issue of the newsletter on climate change and energy out to a wider audience. It's on the website, but we have no good mechanism for letting folks out there who would not have heard through Libertarian channels know about it. If you haven't seen it yet, go to http://www.lpboulder....­ and it can be downloaded as a pdf from the main page (11 pages). This is not spin, and it's not sound bites. Some folks will find it a bit complex to follow, but for those who want to investigate underlying issues, I think they'll find it helpful. It also has a boatload of references to more information.

I do hope our nice 4 degree weather visits Washington soon...evil chuckle.

-Eva
Eva K.
all4thinking
Louisville, CO
Post #: 4
A question came up on one of the lists:
> I am curious. I do not understand what is meant by 28% believe global
> warming is a hoax. Do you believe that global warming is a reality?
This was my reply:

There have long been studies (particularly those that were done to try to figure out why the Dust Bowl happened in the 30s) that showed a clear correlation between warming and sunspots. The work that was done by Timothy Ball (Univ. Manitoba -- see details in the newsletter at lpboulder.org) showed that sunspots generate specific patterns that happen BEFORE climate changes. This work was not accepted by the IPCC, because it didn't properly explain (isn't it obvious, she said sarcastically) why it is that humans are the cause of all of our problems.

We are at a longstanding sunspot minimum -- until we get back to regular sunspot activity (it runs in cycles), it will be difficult to verify this data of Ball's. Waiting for that data would be sensible, but we're talking about government here...rush it through before the real data materializes, because that's the only way to get everyone under the thumb of the UN's hope to get one world government.

The NIPCC report from the Heartland Institute (downloadable from their website at heartland.org) doesn't necessarily include research that shows there is no warming; it shows that the warming isn't happening because of people. The earth has warmed and cooled many times before without human intervention. But that doesn't buy the politicians any further control over our lives.

[not in my original post:] Heartland has some really good articles, and you can sign up to hear about them when they show up. The NIPCC pdf, I should warn you, is over 800 pages, but the last 100 or so are thousands of signatures (9k have phd's in scientific fields), on a petition that's been circulating since 1997, urging the US NOT to sign the Kyoto treaty because the science is by no means "settled" and new signatures are being added all the time.

-Eva


Jack W.
user 8530062
Golden, CO
Post #: 5
The science that shows mankind is influencing the climate is quite settled.

The overall model of global warming is not settled.

What the politicians should do about it is probably "go jump in a barrel of poo".

But doubting that mankind has and does influence climate change is not a pastime of the scientifically educated.
Jack W.
user 8530062
Golden, CO
Post #: 6
From Salon tonite:
Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere are at their highest point in 15 million years. According to the World Meteorological Organization, the current decade is the warmest on record, and the current year is the fifth warmest ever -- observations that are supported by data collected by multiple climate research centers. Evidence of global warming comes from many reinforcing points -- melting polar ice, rising sea levels, changes in plant and animal ecology across the globe. Palin's assertion that we can't "say with assurance that man's activities cause weather changes" is far more highly politicized than anything that comes out of the Climate Research Unit. It is fundamentally anti-science.

Jack W.
user 8530062
Golden, CO
Post #: 7
So feel free to believe what you wish. My concern here is not anyone's belief.

My concern is that the Libertarian Party does not climb aboard the anti-science bus.

Which was clearly what the national party was mulling over in posting such a survey as the one that prompted my rant.
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