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Re: [atheists-767] Santa effect

From: Darlene
Sent on: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 10:08 AM
Hi, Instead fo going on about how we should educate our children we need to focus on not having any more of the parasites. The earth has about 6 billion more humans than it can support and until we can provide food, clothing, a place to stay and a reasonable chance of happiness we need to conquer this stupid reptilian urge and quit having children we don,t want and can,t care for. Not Darlene, Jerry Reaves
On Dec 20, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Rusty wrote:

Educating a child is similar to writing and debugging a software program; if you deliberately plant bugs in the program it will not function properly until the bug is removed. I have found it is near impossible to reprogram the false beliefs people learn in childhood. Evey time an atheist tells me they found the truth; it was the result of searching for it. I have yet to hear of someone being forced to reject religious faith in favor of empiricism.


From: Don Boos <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Mon, December 20,[masked]:55:57 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [atheists-767] Santa effect

All education progresses in steps.  first you learn the alphabet, then you learn the basic sounds of the letters,then the exceptions and so forth.  Sometimes for simplicity you learn erroneous  information and have to relearn it.  It should be no different with Santa,sex.etc.

On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Rusty <[address removed]> wrote:
Monica
I am saying that people of all ages that fear the persecution of a vengeful God are more ethical than the average religious hypocrite that makes up the bulk of western society; but not that they are more ethical than a Secular Humanist. It is the unfortunate result of rejecting irrational faith. Hopefully when the transition is complete most people will adopt the superior ethics of a secular philosophy.n progresses


Forced compliance through fear is literally terrorism; I am not saying forcing a child to believe in Santa is a terrorist act. That is disrespectful and counterproductive. When you lie, beat, threaten or yell at a child you may get a short term positive result; but you instill in them the value that these behaviors are appropriate and successful methods to getting your way and they will utilize these tactics the rest of their lives..

I agree there is a time and place for every explanation; avoiding, postponing or truthfully sugar coating an explanation is preferable to deceit. You say the Santa myth can bond a parent and child; If you bond with your spouse over a lie there is a good chance your relationship will end or at least be shaken when the truth is uncovered. I suspect a lot of rebellion and distrust in older children may stem from the realization they were lied to and deceived in the past.



From: monica <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sun, December 19,[masked]:18:42 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [atheists-767] Santa effect

"That may be why the world is in the
ethical state it is in now; they don't literally believe in or fear any all
seeing authority."
huh?  Are you saying that if children believe or fear an all seeing authority, they will have better ethics?

"Forced compliance through fear is an act of terrorism."
Children are not forced to believe in santa... when did parents start forcing santa on kids? Santa does not punish sinners-unlike gods, who could be described as terrorists.  Santa is not taught in schools.

I do think it is wrong to deceive children, so I see your point, Rusty.  However, I also believe that it is in the child's benefit to not be overly truthful.  If concepts like death, sex, war, etc are questioned by young children, they should certainly be discussed, but not necessarily in full detail.  That's not lying or deceptive; that's just sparing them possibly traumatizing details that they might not comprehend fully anyway. 
Stories like santa claus and tooth fairies are bonding games between parent and child.
Now, I suppose that it is possible for some parents to take the santa myth too far and insist that he's going to do something horrible- but that would be a parenting issue and not a santa issue.
I think when children are old enough to understand that rich kids get way, way better presents that poorer kids, that's when the time is appropriate to explain.  At that age, they should be able to understand that ethical choices can be made without expecting compensation at xmas or in the afterlife- or whatever.  Until then, Santa makes kids happy and that's what every parent wants: happy children.
~paix






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