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Re: [newtech-1] McCain picks Sarah Palin as VP (IdiotXY + IdiotXX)

From: Baba
Sent on: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:49 AM
sure taxes maybe lower elsewhere but you forget that things like the Internet are born out of the taxes that paid for the initial R&D and no private enterprise will ever be willing to take the kinds of risks required to make such things happen.
VC firms generally speaking are the least risk averse investors.
It is very easy to argue in favor of lower taxes especially when you have achieved a certain level of financial independence. Left to the rich they would want no taxes to cover the cost of basic Education. Heck until Ronald Reagan became Governor of California they had a free education for all to be able to go to College in California, if you could get into the University of California program you got to go free or intot eh State University of California system as well.
How many individuals who went to UC Berkeley or  UCSF etc and have gone on to start new companies that in turn employed more people and created new jobs/services/products etc.
Those things led to newer tax returns and did not concentrate the wealth in just a fewpercentage of people.
If you dont have a fair tax system such social contracts dont come about and dont result in the common good of society. I will keep saying that Lower taxes and the trickle down effect of economics does not work always and there is enough empirical data to show that it doesnt work. But yes therewill be a whole bunch of people who will say otherwise.
Silicon Valley's role in the economy and in helping California be the ninthlargest economy in the world has a lot to do with how that State's taxes work for it.
Sure businesses will say that it is really hard to start a company in California or that the taxes they pay is very high yet it seems like they aren't moving to Nevada or Alabama  or Texas.
 After all one would thinkthat if there are some states that have non income taxes their populations would be higher and people would move enmasse and companies would move too, yet that doesnt seem to happen that often does it.
Well youhave a choice in that if you don't like what is happening to the country you can move back to where you came from, for those born here this is their place to work and make the changes they see fit.
Always progressive ideas are resisted by the rich and the poor. Rich dislike them cuz it means they cant have free reign and the poor dislike it cuz the myth sold to them is if they adopt progressive ideas they will close the door to being able to achive the american dream and be rich.
Anyway this is not about the politics of the land, we are all bout Technology and well if you want a healthy startup environment which is creating new products and services, we need people to be educated and allowed to be creative and I am not sure lowered taxes will lead to that necessarily i.e cut spending on R&D and education etc. Well Ill shut up


On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 1:50 AM, Jim <[address removed]> wrote:
Well at least the republicans say they want to cut taxes. while the dems are very clear about wanting to raise taxes. According to the 9/9/8 Wall Street Journal (p A24) Obama's proposals represent "the largest tax increase in the nation's history". I guess some may disagree, but it seems clear to me that low taxes lead to economic growth and prosperity.

Did you know that US corporate tax rate is the 2nd highest in the world? On average the 30 OECD companies referenced in the above report LOWERED corporate taxes almost 15%, while the US stayed virtually the same, just below Japan (which itself lowered it's corporate tax rate 1.5%). No wonder jobs and investments are leaving the US, and going to other places that may be able to do the job almost as well, where they have to pay a lot less tax on potential profits. US corporate tax should be the lowest in the world, so people are interested in doing business here.

I came from another country, expecting personal liberty and low taxes. Little did I realize that the democrats were busy destroying everything that has made the US great.

+J

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Baba <[address removed]> wrote:
Well it is interesting to see how myopic a view people take to the macro problem we have on our hands.
Be it the Left leaning Obama camp with the tax and spend agenda(as touted by their opponents) or the Right leaning less tax and less spending agenda of the McCain camp(as touted by their opponents) assume one thing that the general public is stupid (generally true).
I just wish to point out that we are this point in our society cuz of not just the past 8 years of mismangement but a long slow steady battle that has scratched everything past generations had fought for. My points are as follows:-

  1. There has been a strong focused attack by the rich (some leaning to the left or right)  to get to repeal all the rules/laws we have passed over the last 60 odd years.
  2. Since the Great depression there was a concerted effort in America and Europe for the next 30 odd years to pass laws/rules/regulations to protect the common good of society and remove the Class structure that we had for eons. The culmination of these laws/acts that served the common good of society was the passing of the Civil Rights act in the U.S.A..
  3. By the end of the sixties the class model was breaking down and was being applied to the newly independent countries in Africa, Asia and South America.
    1. This model was slowly but steadily eating away the class structure of rich versus the poor.
  4. The Rich started to re-organize, had their representatives(they buy the campaigns of everyone running from the local city council level all the way to the Presidential campaigns) and have them pass or manipulate laws to suit their needs.
  5. The concept of outsourcing jobs starting with Manufacturing and services is not for
    1. Tthe cost differential but more to recreate the class structure that existed before 1930's in Europe and America.
    2. Done by having a bargaining chip to leverage against the workers left behind
      1. Drop health-care, stagnant wages, rape pension plans and decimate the ability to unionize
      2. Tax breaks are given to the Rich by their Representatives and the common good of society is pilfered.
To think one group of individuals (Democratic Party) is better than the other group (Republican Party) is naivety on part of the many white/blue collar workers who are sold into the myth.

The only industry that seems to have been fair to a large degree is the tech sector where the class structure has been broken constantly in the broad sense is the TECH SECTOR.

Those who run a business will always want to have no regulations/rules and low to no taxes.
After all why does a business owner want a minimum wage act or the Occupational Safety Hazards Act or for that matter the Clean Air Act, all that impede their ability to maximize their profits and hinder their ability to rule.

To think that either of these parties in contention is going to do things for the Common good of society is hogwash. Yes it is true that it was the Democratic Party in America and the Socialist parties of Europe that had fought long and hard to pass the Social Contract for the common good, which most of us take for granted.
Bill Clinton and his compadres have just transformed their politics to be more leaning to the ideals of the GOP and you see that trend in Europe in the likes of Gordon Brown or Nicolai Sarkozy.
I apologize for this diatribe but I just don't like this notion that somehow one is better than the other when the reality is neither is fighting for the Common Good of society.






On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 3:56 PM, Alex Craig <[address removed]> wrote:
If I could just add, tax breaks are an added bonus companies get through
leveraging their position as large employers, they don't (and shouldn't!)
decide to relocate on tax breaks alone, strategic considerations such as
proximity to markets, access to skilled labor etc., trump tax breaks when it
comes to relocating an existing business or locating a new business...

-----Original Message-----
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Paul
Guidry
Sent: Tuesday, September 09,[masked]:31
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [newtech-1] McCain picks Sarah Palin as VP (IdiotXY + IdiotXX)


Wow  , you really buy into that. You really think a company decides to how
many US jobs they will keep by taxes. A company choice to send jobs overseas
has nothing to do with taxes. Like big corp tax breaks have really made a
diference in the job market the last 8 years under this Bush in the white
house. That's a whole other topic. Tax breaks just go to CEOs, board members
and top management bonuses. I heard today that the CEOs of Freddie Mac and
Fanny May will probably get multi-million dollar severance packages for
doing such fine jobs. This will be allowed under the McCain , I mean Bush
administration.  Have you even looked at the Obama and McCain tax plans. It
is a fact that people making under 150 a year will get more money from
Obama's plan. People making from 150 to 250 may pay $500 more and those
making over a few million a year will be taxed much more. It is just the
reverse in McCain's plan.  Read the facts.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1031268,CST-NWS-tax30.article

Also,
   Giving companies massive tax breaks takes away $$$ from local
communities which leads to higher property taxes, raises the deficit, makes
college harder to afford and leads to cuts in education ect. I may owe
slightly more in federal taxes under Obama's plan, but I have family
members, some elderly, who will get much more. So in essence I will be
paying less in the long run. You have to think about the big picture.



---- Jim <[address removed]> wrote:
> Obama's tax and spend policies would be a disaster for US tech. They would
> drive still more investments and jobs away, and would virtually guarantee
> that other countries would continue to take tech leadership away from the
> US. All the tech industry in this country needs is for the government to
get
> out of the way.
>
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Paul Guidry <[address removed]> wrote:
>
> > G,
> >     Don't be so glum. All is not lost unless dem supporters decide not
to
> > vote.  A lot can happen in over 50 days. Palin may even be sent to jail.
> > Actually, Hillary should have been the pres nominee and Obama the vp,
but
> > the extreme left hijacked the party and choose a candidate harder for
the
> > evangelicals to swallow. Face it, B. Clinton is still the most popular
> > living president. To tie this into Tech, his biggest accomplishment was
> > helping competing scientist and IT pros work together in the Human
genome
> > Project . IT was actually completed and mapped ahead of schedule without
Big
> > corporations owning the information.   I think most senior It pros will
> > agree that the 90s (during B Clintons) reign was the golden age for
computer
> > technology in the US.
> >
> >   As far as Palin goes, "open source" to her just means opening up the
> > Alaskan environmental resources to any OIL company with the biggest
pockets.
> > I read this morning that Alaskan polar bears were coming out of the
water
> > green.  I would love someone to ask her how many "internets" (a
bushisim)
> > she has been on.
> >
> > ---- G <[address removed]> wrote:
> > >
> > > This election is Lost. The Conservative Right will galvanize their
base
> > in the middle and southern part of America and put Mccain in the White
> > House; Just like they did in 2004.
> > > Obama should have chosen Clinton as his VP.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: [address removed]: [address removed]: Re: [newtech-1]
> > McCain picks Sarah Palin as VP (IdiotXY + IdiotXX)Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008
> > 10:01:40 -0400
> > > Come on she uses Chrome as her Browser and she is all for Open Source
> > technology to use in Drilling...
> > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Damion Hankejh <[address removed]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > more madness: Palin Media Avoidance Watch: Day 9 -- McCain Camp Says
She
> > Won't Do Interviews Until It Knows She'll Be Treated with "Deference"
those
> > reporters can be such big meanies!!
> > >
> > > Oh Carbiou Barbie, already hiding behind the Rove Media Shield - and
> > Republican lemmings actually buying into it rather than saying, "Hell
yeah
> > she should get her Moose-hunting, book-banning, power-abusing ass out
here
> > and answer some questions."--Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your
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> > [address removed]632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA -- "Wise men talk
> > because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say
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> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10 hidden secrets" from
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> > >
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