Re: [newtech-1] No Coders left in America?
| From: | Michael Carroll |
| Sent on: | Monday, February 25, 2013 2:24 PM |
I think it's "unpopular" because some programmers interpret it as claiming that coding is easy or that it might be saying that the value of their profession is inflated. I don't mean either: coding take a lot of effort and applied creativity, and good developers really deserve the high salaries they can earn.
The problem with those interpretations of the answer, I feel, is that those developers don't distinguish between being a capable coder and being an expert engineer. It might be comparable to the difference between being merely literate and being a professional writer--there's a huge gap in between those two points, but simply being able to read or write with basic ability still opens up all number of possibilities that weren't available before, even if it still leaves a person a long way from being Mark Twain or Thomas Pynchon.
Also, I find it's an unpopular answer with a lot of aspiring "non-technical" co-founders. I won't speculate on why, except to say that, until one has gotten up to their elbows in programming a nascent project idea themselves, it's very hard for them to understand the great value code fluency can bring to just about every aspect of running a successful startup.
Michael
@_mcarroll_
On Feb 25, 2013, at 2:08 PM, "Michael B. Justice" <[address removed]> wrote:
It's a popular answer. Most of these so-called entrepreneurs try to write their own code and get nowhere. Then they hire a professional and that is when the other set of problems begin. If you (the non-coding entrepreneurs) knew what you were doing you would either:a) write a spec and be prepared to pay for the work, orb) write it yourself and get financing after you launch.I've done B a number of times, with varying levels of success (including a sale or 5). I've seen A once or twice but unless you have PM or lead-developer experience the spec has "holes" and developers need to be paid to fill them.If you have a desire to learn (e.g. you have multiple projects that need work) then go take a course and learn how to code well. If you don't (e.g. you have one idea you want to take to market), hire two programmers. One to write the spec and another to write it. You'll pay different rates for each task, but if you get a good PM/Architect you can save money on the code-writing end.MJOn Feb 25, 2013, at 1:32 PM, Michael Carroll <[address removed]> wrote:I know that this is an unpopular answer to this issue, but I would suggest "non-technical" cofounders just learn to code and start building the site themselves.The resources for doing that are available online (and offline) for free are unparalleled: CodeSchool, CodeAcademy, Hacker Hours (http://nyc.hackerhours.org/)--just to name a few.
The point is that if you need a programmer to raise funding/build an MVP/get your startup going, technical knowledge is clearly going to be a central part of you business and remaining dependent on others in this area will always handicap you and the business in going forward. If that's the case, I would look at learning to code not just a way to get your startup off the ground, but as your most important initial investment in it.Best,Michael@_mcarroll_On Feb 25, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Apurva <[address removed]> wrote:To my point I have a team who are implementing my project and they are good, reliable to me and I am getting my work done, my offer is only because they can be kept as a team if a few small projects are ongoing and everyone can benefit.
I have worked for sweat equity and it is BULLAlso called slavery in past times.
Thanks,Apurva
On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:25, "Michael B. Justice" <[address removed]> wrote:Unless the person has a track record I don't bother with meaningful negotiations. I know a good dozen qualified US developers (many here in NYC) who do quite well -- none of us fall for those "implement my idea an we'll get rich" -offers anymore. Unless it's a proven entrepreneur (who knows that any meaningful project requires a team, not just one developer) it's hard to get good local talent unless you have hard currency to back your idea.MJOn Feb 25, 2013, at 12:16 PM, Michael Mellinger <[address removed]> wrote:Thousands of dollars is a few weeks worth of work? I checked your history and you were bootstrapping in Dec 2010. Do you have an MVP yet?
The business model seems to be "non-technical founder looking for 'rock star' dev to work hard and make them millions. Will pay small salary and offer equity." Anyone here a proven founder?It's easy to be the idea guy. Who doesn't have ideas.
On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:04 PM, "K. Lane" <[address removed]> wrote:Not gonna get into a flaming war with you. That's way I avoid these Board. So far, I've shelled out thousands in "good American dollars." Whatever your problem is buddy, take it somewhere else. I'm not interested in anything you have to say, all right???
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Aleksey Korzun <[address removed]> wrote:That's correct, you will not be able to find any good engineers in America that will work for you for peanuts or bullshit equity.
--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael Mellinger ([address removed]) from NY Tech Meetup.
To learn more about Michael Mellinger, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages
Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael B. Justice ([address removed]) from NY Tech Meetup.
To learn more about Michael B. Justice, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages
Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Apurva ([address removed]) from NY Tech Meetup.
To learn more about Apurva, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages
Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael Carroll ([address removed]) from NY Tech Meetup.
To learn more about Michael Carroll, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages
Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Michael B. Justice ([address removed]) from NY Tech Meetup.
To learn more about Michael B. Justice, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages
Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
People in thisMeetup are also in:
-
NYC on Rails
2,833 Ruby developers
-
NYC Apps
2,047 Members
-
NYC Spotify Tech Group
882 Music Hackers
-
-
-
