Re: [newtech-1] Mac is cracked in 10 seconds

From: Michael M.
Sent on: Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:04 AM
Ok.  Can you provide some numbers on the quantity of mac and pc  
viruses?  There are 100,000+ viruses for Windows.  We are simply  
trying to establish whether the statement is true or false.

The one case we all seem to agree on is that most viruses are written  
to exploit flaws in Windows.  This is not an opinion, it's a fact.

Now you can argue potential all you want, but that's not going to  
change the current reality.  Someday I will see a mac virus, but to  
date not a one.

-Mike
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Kevin <[address removed]> wrote:

> No offense, but that's a really bad argument.  We're here to talk
> about tech, right?  I find it really interesting that the mac was
> hacked that easily, so its a good discussion.  The mac is clearly not
> that much more secure, right?  Or is it?  State the case.
>
> What does "more secure" mean?  How much more?  Would the answer be "a
> lot" or "barely".  Its not really a true/false situation because its a
> matter of opinion, and depends on several variables.  The average mac
> user is probably a little more web-aware than the average PC user (I
> use my parents as the average PC user).  The mac being more secure in
> that case has nothing to do with the platform itself.  Also, the days
> when the mac was a smaller target are pretty much over going forward.
> In no small part because of the advertising of its safety.  Nothing
> gets people to step up like a challenge (by "people" I mean a-holes,
> lonely teens, and criminals).  Also, you know, the extremely fast
> increase in consumer market share.
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Michael Mellinger
> <[address removed]> wrote:
>> Victor would disagree with you on security through obscurity.
>> At any rate, we aren't really debating that.
>> Is this statement true or false?  The Mac is more secure than the PC.
>>
>> You aren't being asked to provide any other thoughts or opinions.   
>> We could
>> argue for quite a while on reasons.  However, victor, for example,  
>> usually
>> ends up something like "the mac is only more secure because it is  
>> less
>> popular.  This translates to "it is more secure." Now since we all  
>> agree on
>> this point, I see no reason to argue further. Apple can make the  
>> claim that
>> they are more secure.
>> -Mike
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Andrew <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>> Security through obscurity is never truly secure, it just engenders  
>> a false
>> sense of security.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 3:22 AM, Michael Mellinger <[address removed] 
>> >
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So can we agree that Macs are more secure because they are less of a
>>> target?
>>>
>>> People don't have to worry about 100,000+ viruses that PCs users  
>>> have
>>> to worry about.  The bottom line is that you are safer running Mac  
>>> OS.
>>>  We can debate the reasons but the final answer is the same.
>>>
>>> ">> > I don't watch TV, but I am curious; is Apple still running
>>> commercials
>>>>>­> where
>>>>>­> Macs are portrayed as being more secure than PCs?"
>>>
>>> -Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Victor Shamanovsky
>>> <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>> Nice try, try reading what you post, before you post it.
>>>>
>>>> In an interview with Tom���s Hardware, Miller stated, ���I���d say  
>>>> that Macs
>>>> are
>>>> less secure for the reasons we���ve discussed here (lack of
>>>> anti-exploitation
>>>> technologies) but are more safe because there simply isn���t muc 
>>>> h malware
>>>> out
>>>> there. For now, I���d still recommend Macs for typical users as  
>>>> the odds
>>>> of
>>>> something targeting them are so low that they might go years  
>>>> without
>>>> seeing
>>>> any malware, even though if an attacker cared to target them it  
>>>> would be
>>>> easier for them.���
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Michael Mellinger
>>>> <[address removed]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ Just a quick follow up to Victor's post.  Just in case anyone  
>>>>>­ takes
>>>>>­ him a credible source of information.   The guy who won the  
>>>>>­ contest
>>>>>­ that Victor was gloating about has stated several times that  
>>>>>­ Macs are
>>>>>­ safer than Windows.
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ http://www.roughl...­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ -Mike
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Victor Shamanovsky
>>>>>­ <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­> I don't watch TV, but I am curious; is Apple still running
>>>>>­> commercials
>>>>>­> where
>>>>>­> Macs are portrayed as being more secure than PCs?
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Mark Coates <[address removed] 
>>>>>­> >
>>>>>­> wrote:
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>> That's what you call 'Accessibility.'
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>> Regards,
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>> Mark Coates
>>>>>­>> Lead Software Engineer
>>>>>­>> ZepInvest
>>>>>­>> [P]: (580)[masked]
>>>>>­>> [F]: (708)[masked]
>>>>>­>> [E]: [address removed]
>>>>>­>> http://www.zepinv...­
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Victor Shamanovsky
>>>>>­>> <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> http://www.comput...­
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> "Charlie Miller, the security researcher who hacked a Mac in  
>>>>>­>>> two
>>>>>­>>> minutes
>>>>>­>>> last year at CanSecWest's PWN2OWN contest, improved his time  
>>>>>­>>> today
>>>>>­>>> by
>>>>>­>>> breaking into another Mac in under 10 seconds."
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> lol
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>
>
> -- 
> --------------------­
> Kevin Galligan
> www.kagii.com
>
>
>
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