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Re: [pagan-341] Nightmare, warning to pagans Friday, November 6,[masked]:49 AM

From: Mara
Sent on: Monday, November 9, 2009 7:00 PM
PJ, I'm not sure what to make of your email.  It was not my intention to stir up such passion.  However, I will take what you said under consideration. 

I try not to be naive, but in the end I am what I am. :) The blue print of my being (in this life) cannot be changed for I am here to learn a lesson(s).  I do believe that it is human nature to fear what is foreign or different.  Paganism has gotten such a bad wrap, but all done under the guise of controlling the masses via fear.  In my email below I gave way to that fear (or ignorance, whichever you prefer).  I did so by the notion that paganism is worthy of patriotic religions such as Christianity who would infiltrate a pagan organization (as if we are so important and pose a threat).  So please forgive me for being gullible and/or ignorant.
 

If you ask me, Paganism is the last free frontier.  It allows us our own beliefs separate from the beliefs of the masses.  Salvation is within is not outside us.  In spite of our individual lessons, we have the means and capability to fulfill our destiny.  We (each of us) are gods and goddesses.

It's easy having been an ex-Judeo-Christian to be somewhat jaded.  But in the end it truly is about what sustains you in this life...whatever belief that may be.  But consider this, my friend, more people have died in the name of religion, than all wars put together.

I know this isn't the dark ages, but slavery via religion is just another window dressing...another dogma or political platform with the intent to instill fear.  With all do respect it behooves us to be cautious and prudent.

With much love and light,
Mara



-----Original Message-----
From: PJ <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Mon, Nov 9,[masked]:20 pm
Subject: RE: [pagan-341] Nightmare, warning to pagans Friday, November 6,[masked]:49 AM

I���ve been a part of this group for a while, but haven���t responded many if any of the posts until now���  Unfortunately I think I may be making my introduction by starting a few fires with what may well be an unpopular opinion.
 
I am going echo the previous poster���s sentiment by saying that these attitudes are disheartening, but sadly I can not say they are all that shocking.  My beliefs are eclectic to say the least, and yes, I do consider myself to be pagan.  That said, there are times where it���s almost embarrassing to lump myself into that group because of attitudes such as those portrayed by OldBlue.
 
Paganism is NOT a social club to gripe about what ���The Man��� aka xtian aka people who follow main stream religions is or isn���t doing (namely Christians).   Being Pagan is NOT one in the same as ���Hey I���m cool because now I have other people who didn���t quite fit the norm gathered together in the same circle as me and now we have super duper awesome powers and purpose.���    Being Pagan, is NOT reading a bunch of Harry Potter, Dungeons and Dragons, and Wheel of Time books or watching ���The Craft��� 67 times and thinking you know magic.    Quite honestly, I just assume allow all those people get together, and start their own little ���We���re Disatasfied and Grouped Together, So Lets Hate Club.���   
 
It would make the remainder of the ���Pagans��� much easier to take seriously by the main stream and a lot more pleasant to be around.    There is no one pagan belief, and anyone who tells you there is has no idea what they are talking about.   I���ve mentioned what Paganism isn���t��� 
 
Here���s what I believe it is, or at least should be in modern culture. :
 
If you practice a faith that does NOT belong to one of the major ���world��� religions, then you are pagan.
 
If you dabble with the mystical in such a way that is NOT commonly embraced or endorsed by the modern scientific community you are pagan.
 
I if you engage in any form of spell casting, or activity intented to generate supernatural, or uncanny effects that is NOT explicity sanctioned by a major world religion, you are pagan.
 
 
A pagan community should be about metaphysical or alternative religious beliefs, exploration, learning and understanding.   
 
There is no conspiracy.  There are no spies out to get you who are secretly working undercover for one of the major religions and reporting everything they hear back to the Vatican.   You will not be burned for your pagan beliefs in any first world country, although you may be electrocuted if your practice involves the sacrifice of human beings (no that was not a joke, human sacrifice is a very real part of the ancient religions modern paganism is derived from).   
 
Simply put the Christian masses DO NOT CARE what we do, although many may hope to ���save souls��� by teaching their beliefs.   Some are extremely poor teachers while others are quite adept.   For the most part, most of them DO NOT BELIEVE in magick any more than most pagans believe in or worship the Nailed God.   I don���t blame them with the face so many in the community often show the community.
 
People say they lie���  I am not so proud as to say that I know the ultimate truth of everything that is, has been, and will ever be.   To lie is against their religion, and thus if they are in fact true Christians, they believe in what they are saying at that moment.    Whether or not what they say is true or not is irrelevant ��� so long as it is believed by the person speaking the words it is not a lie.   I will offer a reminder that FAITH is exactly that ��� believeing in something without any tangible evidence or rational reason for doing so.  After that it becomes science.
 
Now people, I know I am not going to change anyone���s mind by posting this who is set in their ways.  But just remember,  if you ARE one of the people that complain about the oh so terrible xtian boogiemen, spies, assassins or whatever else you have lead yourself to believe about them on a daily basis that doesn���t make you pagan ��� it just makes you a bigot.  If you put half the amount of effort into magickal advancement,  solidifying  your own beliefs, and conviction to stand on your own beliefs in this reality then you might actually some results in your mystical practice, or be worthy of respect within your own religion.  If you feel you can���t be pagan without the bigotry and hate, then as yourself what you are if you can not justify your own beliefs without the angst towards the other.   THEY DO NOT CARE WHAT WE DO, so don���t become enslaved by obsession over what they think, believe or practice.   Just get over it and realize this isn���t the dark ages.
 
I have no time to proof this message as I gotta pick someone up now.
-  PJ

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Mara
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:31 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [pagan-341] Nightmare, warning to pagans Friday, November 6,[masked]:49 AM
 
Wow...OldBlue, I feel somewhat disheartened.  I can't believe the lack of tolerance for others different beliefs.  How sad!  I've been a Christian, married a Jew, (now divorced) but nothing speaks to me like being a pagan.  I accept that others may have different beliefs and I hope that their beliefs bring them meaning and happiness. I'm shocked because I (honestly) had no idea that others would infiltrate a group of people to try to convert from within. 

Call me naive...nevertheless I remain shocked and disheartened by the thought.
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: OldBlue <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Fri, Nov 6,[masked]:57 pm
Subject: Re: [pagan-341] Nightmare, warning to pagans Friday, November 6, 2009 10:49 AM
Many xtian sects (not all - but some) will lie to get "into" any group that they deem needs 'saving' esp pagan communities and mislead them into - who knows what? in order to teach us their "true path" ---

<-----Original Message----->
From: Robert [[address removed]]
Sent: 11/6/2009 2:25:30 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [pagan-341] Nightmare, warning to pagans Friday, November 6,[masked]:49 AM
 
Jeryze,

Your message this date:
I would like to have the term "xtian infiltrator" defined for me it is one that I'm not familiar with.
I thankyou.

Response:

xtian = text abbreviation for Christian

infiltrator = Houghton Mifflin dictionary: (Noun) One who enters or takes up a position gradually or surreptitiously, as for purposes of espionage or takeover. (e.g. spies or troops put into enemy territory)

The tone of a significant portion of the prior postings was that they may be trying to make inroads under false pretense. 

My purpose in the first part of the sentence you refer to was to qualify that I was "not" addressing any question or aspect of them being "xtian infiltrators". But instead, to emphasize that if it was their decision not to provide references, that it is a private choice unto them.  That only they know all the elements of what is going on in their personal lives.

Hope that answers your question and clears up this item for you.

R





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