RE: [penn-permaculture] Permie emergency measures...

From: Joy
Sent on: Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:05 AM
Thanks for the information, Fred. I kinda figured as much but you never know.

I, quite fortunately, have power. But if I didn't, I'm equipped to handle it with alternate means. I was looking for a quick way to help others who do not have power and have not prepared in advance.
I'm sure I could cobble together some kind of wind, solar, or pedal power generator, but that requires all of the proper PARTS, and also SECURITY.

For example, my mom also lives in an apartment. She could temporarily put a few 15 watt solar panels out to collect some energy, but that would mean she'd need space, and a way to lock them down, along with the inverter, battery, and extension cords, so they don't "walk off".
Pedal power would be a great indoor solution, but again, if not prepared in advance, you'd need all the proper parts to build one. And with shipping and the mail being so spotty, that's a no-go. Maybe you could score something at a junkyard, but you'd have to really understand what you're looking for. And probably know how to weld and have the means to do so.

Which brings me to the point that Fred is most likely actually pointing at, which is to have this stuff beforehand, preferably as your daily source of power. 

But I digress. What I'm actually looking at here is some social permaculture; helping folks when they need it, and not in a "third world" country. We talk a lot about this stuff, but here we are, and I'm wondering how those ideas are holding up.

Permaculture works with small and slow solutions, but what about when we need a FAST solution, like now? 
What about places that aren't tropical, where the cold is a major factor, where social behavior (looting, carelessness, entitlement) are a factor; like here on the east coast?

It seems to me that the permie response is to have things already established, which again, requires space and resources to "hold" whatever is established, or to at least harbor the necessary resources to assemble later. 
But at its core, what I think we're talking about here again is the dissonance between the currently accepted lifestyle (wait until Wawa is open and get a hot cup of coffee and some soup), and the "permie" mentality (grow a food forest, build a cob oven, etc.). 

Where do we find that in-between space that allows us to be of use in the current social climate, while applying permaculture principles?

I would LOVE to hear people's practical solutions for use right now, and also any thoughts on permaculture as an emergency application in general.

Thanks, and stay warm!
~Joy





----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Kittelmann" <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Date: Thu, 01 Nov[masked]:34:00 -0400
Subject: RE: [penn-permaculture] Permie emergency measures...

> Deny.
> Not the "few hours" figure (that might be true, though I would estimate more like a full day ?) but rather that's it's any good for crowding around.  Hold a smore over that thing and nothing will happen.  Now if you want to shove that smore deep into the center of the compost pile, that ought to work, if a little slowly.  Recommend you wrap it in foil first.
> 
> Surely there's sufficient expertise within this group to make our own wind generators, pedal-power generators, and solar thermal sources of electricity, and make them all out of trash even.  I feel like I've said so a thousand times though, in a hundred different contexts to a wide variety of people.  I don't want to be annoying, and I've gotten bored with suggesting such.  But this time I'm not the proverbial canary.  I'm living large downtown with my grid power.
> Fred
> 
> From: [address removed]
> To: [address removed]
> Subject: [penn-permaculture] Permie emergency measures...
> Date: Wed, 31 Oct[masked]:16:15 -0400
> 
> This one is for all you serious composters out there.
> 
> How fast does a compost pile heat up? I'm looking at a whole town without electricity, and it's getting cold. I've heard that throwing wet leaves and kitchen scraps into a closed trash bag with some compost starter will heat up in a few hours, for an outdoor "crowd-around" heat source.
> 
> Can anybody confirm or deny this?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ~Joy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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