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This Meetup is cancelled

2014 Shooting Guideline

  • No location was chosen

  • Portolio form build a better portfolio for your own, is a learning experience for everyone, and if things did not turn out as expected, share, ask for help, and make the next better.

    I encour­age all to share as it is the only way for you to grow. Be confident about your art work...share at least 5 of each person you take...

    Meetup Etiquette & Rules:

    -introduce yourself before shoot model

    http://www.meetup.com/portfolio/messages/boards/thread/25861412

    Www.dropbox.com is free n share you upload with non member they sign up both get extra storage space.

    New:

    Point system:

    -1points= drop out less then 48hrs

    $ % refund when photo distribute to talented.

    No selfie = no attending (Recognizable pics are for member safety, model know who took their picture)

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Want to create own event??

    please list on suggest page:

    Date: ...........

    location:......

    MODEL & MUA....?

    Limited Max photographer: 10

    cost attending.

Join or login to comment.

  • Freeman

    No, this is not an actual meetup, it's just informative stuff. If you notice there is no location either. Most likely Kin will just move the date again so, it's being treated like a sticky in the forum.

    January 30, 2014

  • Tina W.

    Same here...bringing my princess home for the weekend. Have a good one!

    January 30, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    Uploading pictures only to meetup page is not helpful. Most of the models I get for events are NOT meetup members and do not have access.

    January 29, 2014

    • Pigpen

      I was told the same as deb. I was emailing photos but was told a while ago that if it's up on the site it's OK too. And the shot in the past the models got it from the site and send Thank you emails to me but if that's not the case anymore I can send photos out. Mine aren't very good and I'm not a pro so I don't care who gets it. As long as they're not photos of me going to perverts I'm cool with it.

      1 · January 29, 2014

    • Kin

      our meetup group is an open group, don't need to be a member to access the group or photo.

      January 29, 2014

  • Colleen T.

    5 or 6 good photos are enough to upload. I don't have time to scroll through dozens of photos from one photographer, especially when the photos haven't been touched up. It should be quality, not quantity.

    1 · January 29, 2014

    • Thomas K.

      I think Colleen meant 5-6 images for the meetup page. Models and MUA should get all images but I like seeing everyone's best stuff on the meetup page. I don't want to cycle through 500 images on the meetup page.

      2 · January 29, 2014

    • Colleen T.

      That's what I meant Thomas! Thank you.'

      January 29, 2014

  • Ryan

    I think the best way to resolve the portfolio photos issue is by having all photographers at the event upload photos directly to the event page. Each event page can hold 1000 high resolution photos so each photographer can upload around 75 photos which is plenty. This way we can confirm that each photographer has uploaded at least 5 photos so that we can keep the models, MUAs and hairstylists happy. Once the event is over the event organizer will be able to easily track which photographers have submitted photos and which ones have not. We will give everyone two weeks to submit the photos. What do you think Kin?

    January 28, 2014

    • Freeman

      What I normally do after the shoot and got home is copy all the RAW files to my PC and leave the files as is in the card(that serve as temporary backup). Then import them to LightRoom and start picking out the pictures that during the shoot models told me they like those(while my memory is still fresh) and mark them. Then pick at least 1 picture of each model and mark them. Process them, down-res and upload them to the group. I generally do this the same night or the day after(after work) depend on how tired I was. Then I start going to my normal workflow as I have time to do them. By that time I normally would have got the email contact list and I can upload the processed high-res images to the webhosting with password and email the models/MUAs. All this generally done by the weekend after the shoot.

      January 29, 2014

    • Freeman

      The organizers are generously enough only ask to have them delivered in 2-3 weeks. I just don't understand how can people be so busy to not have time to work on pictures in 3 weeks but have time to shoot leisurely.

      1 · January 29, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    I wish people would put their real picture on the meetup site. I want to say "Good to see you" or I would like to know who's who at a shoot, but, images of scenery or objects or people with faces behind a camera make it difficult.

    January 26, 2014

    • Freeman

      In the case of Simon, he didn't go away, he is still around as a regular member and not an organizer.

      January 28, 2014

    • Kin

      Yeah Simon still around u could pvt him if u have photography question....

      January 28, 2014

  • Tina W.

    It is impossible to please everyone as we all have our own ideas and expectations. Many photographers dont possess good communication skills and can't convey what they want. Many are late to the shoot, many drop out at the last minute. Muas and h/s go early to prep models for the shoot; we wait around the makeup room to do touch ups then pack up and leave. We do what we can to help and we certainly don't interfere or interrupt the shoot, so I fail to see how we might have inflated ego or are pain in the butt. With that said, I am more than willing to give a makeup class to help photographers understand the steps required to get models ready to shoot...I guarantee it won't be the same as "all pretty girls can do their own makeup" makeup. Take before, during/step by step and after pohtos for comparison, suggestions, discussion, Q&A, whatever. If you're up for it let me know. Hi, Freeman.

    January 28, 2014

    • Ryan

      I have captured some of my most favorite photos while working with this amazing bunch of people. The models, makeup artists and hair stylists have always been amazing and I know how much work goes into what you do and its why the word "Artist" is at the end of Makeup Artist. I hope no one else drops out of this group because its my favorite meetup group and its because of the Models, MUAs, Hair stylists and the event organizers like Kin. Lets just put the negativity behind us and get back to work making amazing photos. I'm helping to organize the Great Gatsby event this weekend and I can assure the models, MUAs and Hairstylists that they will get tons of photos for their portfolios.

      January 28, 2014

    • Freeman

      I can't say I know exactly what Ken and Ethan mean, but I'm sure just like photographers, not all MUAs and H/S are all equal. Even as photographers, certain photographers may be good at some areas while another may excel on other. What the photographers have in mind going into the shoot may be different from the models and MUAs. But definitely there is a lack of communication here. I would certainly hope that some sort of class that can bridge the gap of communication is a good thing and we should certainly keep that option open. But, Tina, I think I can say that pretty girl like Michelle Phan can certainly do her own make up. Have subscribed to her youtube feed over a year now but i'm just a dummy and haven't learn a thing.

      January 28, 2014

  • Ram

    The biggest complaint is models not getting their pictures, I believe it to be true.
    Most photographers upload (eventually) pictures from the shoot. May I suggest that, if photographers upload printable sizes from the meet up, then models and MUAs copy directly from the site. This way models and MUAs download pictures they are interested in.
    This would cut on photographers infractions and all interested parties get the pictures they need. Photographers sometimes do not get to take pictures of all models in a shoot. A photographer may get dinged from a model that did not photograph at all.

    1 · January 26, 2014

    • Kin

      One of the reason I have everyone meetup at same time so they could get to know each other...not just show up n shoot when model is ready..

      1 · January 26, 2014

    • Freeman

      But that's end up how it goes. Many people, not just photographers end up arrive on the designated time or late, but not early. I suppose there could be just a meetup to hangout and not specifically to shoot like the one mid last year on the beach. Party and BBQ.

      January 26, 2014

  • Bob W

    I hope most people show up for these events. It seems that by the time I see an event notice it is already full! If the event does not have a date, time, and approximate location listed then I don't have enough information to decide.

    January 26, 2014

  • Sheri

    First of all, we have great rules and this group just needs to abide and enforce its own rules. The rules need to extend to all members and event hosts. I would suggest that every new member needs to read the rules and agree before joining. Any changes to the rules need to be agreed upon by all the organizers and distributed to all members in advance. If any members do not agree, they should have the option to leave the group. For example, Rule #1 is about giving CREDIT to all talent (first and last name) and Rule #2 is providing CONTACT INFO about the talent (so credit can be given). I would suggest a talent contact list be distributed within 48 hours after a shoot to all those that attended. Who was the model, name of MUA, hair stylist, wardrobe stylist, designer, etc. for each model. Any postings on Facebook, Model Mayhem, etc. needs to include the credits. When people give their time and talent for TFs, credits need to be given!! This is the lifeblood of TF shoots.

    3 · January 13, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      Oh, in that case, I will have to bow out. I don't believe that you should have an incentive to do something that you are supposed to in the first place. I thought you were discussing a record keeping method for sanctioning those that do not conform to the rules. An incentive is different than a sanction. I think there are those that do not care about an incentive and will continue to show up whenever, but I think all care about sanctions, like not being invited.

      2 · January 14, 2014

    • Ron

      I would avoid using the term sanction since it can have two meanings which are polar opposites.

      January 21, 2014

  • Freeman

    "Ratio: Max 5photo/1 model"? Max? typo?

    1 · December 27, 2013

    • Kin

      Maximum photographer ratio,

      January 15, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      Ken, we know you understand that, stop showing off, be kind to the new people that are learning, and remember, there will always be new people. meanie

      1 · January 15, 2014

  • Ron

    Should we consider public hanging for delinquents?

    January 14, 2014

    • Ron

      I think a discussion of unspeakable things is in order.

      January 15, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      You are not suppose to like it Ron, are you volunteering for the stalks.

      January 15, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    I would like to address the issue of Credits and the problems I have had to deal with concerning them.

    I used to send an email to everyone after every shoot with models full name and contact info hoping that each photographer would be kind and send at least a few images to the models and MUAs.
    Unfortunately, I had no way of knowing which photographers were sending images and which were not. I would then have to email the models to ask who had sent them photographs and who hadn't. Often I would get an unhappy email from a model who hadn't received ANY photographs.

    This is why I have been requesting that all photographers forward me the pictures and I upload all that I receive within one week to my dropbox and share it with all talent involved.

    I will continue this below because of the 1000 Character limit

    January 14, 2014

    • Freeman

      Of course I don't mean it should solely be their responsibility, other photographers can step in, but the model him/herself should be the first to speak if whatever make them uncomfortable.

      January 14, 2014

    • Freeman

      As far as email harassment, it's possible to make temporary email accounts or we can get a domain name. most domain hosting(not web hosting) cost about $10 a year and include email forwarding. This is something simple to do. But it has to be setup for each model.

      January 14, 2014

  • Colleen T.

    Kin has recently begun refunding the fee for some events, once the photographer posts pictures. This may prove to be a good incentive.

    January 14, 2014

  • Sheri

    Thanks, and I agree with Steve. I understand that there is an issue with photographers who do not provide photos to the models and talent. For those photographers who do not provide photos or upload to the Meetup page, then they should not be allowed to attend future meetups until they provide their photos, unless approved by the organizers. We all get behind at times, and that should be decided on a case by case basis. Some photographers provide quality retouched photos that take more time, and some do not. There is always a range of skill at each meetup, and that is a part of the shared experience - we all learn from each other, and no one should be punished because they are still learning. It is great that Ethan is providing workshops at a very reasonable price for this group. Maybe there should be a rule that no member should be allowed to be behind more than one Meetup behind on their photos. Just a suggestion. . .

    January 13, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      Not a bad idea...

      January 13, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    After taking everything into consideration, why not leave it alone?
    Each profile already records the number of RSVP'd, the number of meetups attended and the number of no shows. No additional work needed. Perhaps it would be ok to just review profiles before authorizing attendance to a meetup.

    1 · January 6, 2014

    • Freeman

      There are no 2 seperate books. It's one book, just publish twice, onr with redacted info. Imagine a spreadsheet that you hide one of the field or make it outside the printed field. then print as a pdf that prople can see just name and score.
      The event host job is to keep track of additive/subtractive point for that event, then submit that 2 weeks after the event yhen organizer applied the addition/subtraction to the current list.

      January 7, 2014

    • Ron

      "It's one book, just publish twice, onr with redacted info." That is 2 sets of books! And who will keep everyone's records from event to event? This just puts too much of a burden on the hosts/organizers. I like Tina's idea. I don't think I understand all of it, but I think I like it.

      January 7, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    So when and how does all this get implemented?

    January 6, 2014

    • Freeman

      somebody start with a draft, posted in the discussion board/forum. Then have the organizers read and approved it. Then post it for review in the group and see if things need to be clarify or members give additional suggestion. This is all depend on whether it's gonna be more like rules or guidelines. Then again, if the rules gonna be like 18 pages of 10pt fonts single space presented in the Term of Services fashion, all in legalese then people are just going to ignore.

      January 6, 2014

    • Kin

      Maybe in a month after drafting all together like freeman said hopefully not 18 page haha

      January 7, 2014

  • Ron

    Ethan, can you teach me to tie a bow tie?

    1 · December 31, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Sign me up for this one. Can I bring my snap on?

      January 7, 2014

    • A former member
      A former member

      Snap ons not allowed

      January 7, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    Cancellations seems to be the biggest problem. Maybe a way of recording these, unless excused due to time, date, or location change, would be all you need? Just a thought.

    January 6, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    I think having Photographers pay when they sign up is the best way. It is a commitment on both ends
    It is helpful when a shoot is posted to be clear on Makeup time and shoot time. It is generally my assumption that if a shoot is posted for 10am then we are shooting at 10am give or take 15 min
    Having pictures and names of the models in the shoot
    Location details
    Lighting specifics
    This is my wish list ;-)
    I appreciate all the creative efforts that go into these shoots
    Happy Holidays all!

    2 · December 25, 2013

    • Tina W.

      Hi Ron...look forward to meeting and working with you 8)

      1 · January 3, 2014

    • Ron

      Thank you, Tina. Same here.

      1 · January 3, 2014

  • A former member
    A former member

    Just a thought. What if we did level rated events? We could do events for beginner photographers and models, Intermediates, and advanced. Cost per event could be higher for the more advanced meetups. Would allow us to get paid pro models for advanced attendees and have a decent budget for props or set construction if so desired. Perhaps one would be required to have x amount of points to attend advanced events? I personally would love to do a few production style shoots where we all work together on a concept and work hard to execute it. Maybe even get corporations to pay us to do so as a group. Would be wonderful experience for everyone I think and would help teach how to work together as a crew to create what the client needs.

    2 · December 28, 2013

    • Freeman

      I would disagree with the idea of rating photographer (at the very least publically). We should now focus on rating the behaviors, that is why we brought up the idea of points system. The role of lead photographer is to act as a team leader and ensure that the talents will get certain minimum of quality in return. Rating the photographers may not get the result you have in mind. A hard working photographer with not much skill to begin with would end up not getting into a team that can improve his/her experience and skill. We always can learn something new from one another.

      1 · December 30, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Same here Ken, I wonder sometimes how you and I get away with it...

      December 30, 2013

  • Tina W.

    A great little coffee shop in San Gabriel; good coffee/drinks and munchies and quiet for discussion. If okay for all I'll call the owner to reserve a section.

    December 30, 2013

    • Freeman

      As Kinsaid, there is no actual meeting place for this one. And it make a lot of sense for that. This way we don't have rush things. People can read at convenience time, take their time to think of problem, solution and then response.

      December 30, 2013

    • Tina W.

      Hey Freeman! Thx for clarifying...missed this piece of info amidst all the posts.

      December 30, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    @Freeman List of photographer related problems/issues that I have personally experienced hosting events.

    Unprofessional-isms:

    Childishness.
    Selfishness.
    Tardiness.
    Excessive Profanity.
    Self-Righteousness.
    Crude and overtly sexual comments.
    Inability to keep promises.
    Inability to make or keep commitments.
    Inability to send images to talent within a timely manner.
    Inability to work together as a group/team.


    I think all too often we take these group shoots for granted and do not realize just how much work goes into organizing events, having to get models, makeup artists and location, etc.

    It is a hell of a lot of work.

    Each of us has been blessed with the opportunity to attend awesome events wherein we do not have to deal with booking models and all. We are only limited by our own creativity and personality. :)

    4 · December 22, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      That is why I do not like posting photos of modles booked.

      December 27, 2013

    • Marc Y

      hope it's okay for someone who hasn't attended one of these events to chime in (as one day i'd like to). if folks are flaking, perhaps a 3-strikes law could be implemented: one rsvp's by paypal deposit / 48+ hr cancellations are allowed for full refund; 24-48 hr cancellations get 1/2 deposit back; less than 24 hrs cancellation loses entire deposit / 1st less-than-24hr cancellation gets a warning (but still loses deposit); 2nd (less than 24hr) infraction gets a suspension; after 3rd (less than 24hr) infraction, member is banned from shoots (if one does this 3x, i think it's fair to say they're pretty unreliable) / it might at least get those committed to show if they're going to lose money, plus, it still keeps money coming in to pay for fees even if a replacement can't be found. just some thoughts after skimming though these posts.

      December 30, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Note to all. This is just an online discussion posted as meet up so everyone can see it ( because not everyone checks discussion tab) I don't believe we are actually meeting up for this, just working it out online. :)

    1 · December 30, 2013

  • Freeman

    I could be wrong, but aren't we bringing this up because there were problems?(mostly photographers related issues) Shouldn't the issues be listed, that way people can give suggestion toward solving the problem, rather than just random one. That said, a lot of people aren't participating in the first place.
    About the flaky attendants. I think Ken already start implementing the idea of refund(cash back). While I think that works, but I think the problem started with how people enroll in even(shoot) in the first place. Current system that encourage people to just enroll first then drop out later is not ideal in the first place. We currently have 40+ upcoming events, majority of them doesn't even have the date, time and location listed yet we are looking at those even with plenty of people enrolled already. Does this make sense? If the point system is to be fully implement, I do suggest partial point be deducted to anyone cancel the event regardless of time notification.

    1 · December 22, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Ken is right. BTW, I should add that Playboys centerfolds (only the centerfold) are 100% unretouched. Playboy prides themselves in this fact. It is all lighting and makeup. I came into photography at a time when we had to pre-touch and not re-touch. You had to fix it before you clicked the shutter. Digital has made us all lazy...

      December 27, 2013

    • Kin

      Models/MUA go to first one no good don't see them again. Yup it like the restaurant picking

      1 · December 27, 2013

  • John H.

    I love the idea of a Lead Photographer, I also think we should play with the idea, for each shoot, having a shoot manager, not necessarily the host, that will not shoot but rather be a central point person that interfaces with everyone and provides decorum security. They should also work with the host and be a liaison between the models, stylists and photographers. They should relieve the host, during the day of the event, so the host's job is easier and hopefully the host can join in the fun of the event, as a reward for the hard work in putting it together.

    1 · December 23, 2013

    • John H.

      Steve, I didn't intend to imply a big rukus. I'm a firm believer that any process can be improved. The issue with putting some people in leadership roles is that they may try to "Lead" rather than serve. The goal of the role I mentioned is to enable a team environment that is supportive to photographers, models, stylists and the host. Sometimes you need a person, with the right attitude and demeanor to keep the process running smoothly. Indeed it does take experience and training. The goal is not to complicate the event.

      1 · December 26, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      I am sure that any organizer would be happy and appreciative of you help, I just don't think that it should be part of the structure of meetups. Many (in fact most) of the events I've been to have run smoothly and all participants seemed willing to help if asked. The more organized the host, the more organized the meeting. Strange coincidence. Anyway, I see it as artistry needs space and freedom and an environment that is as breezy and free as possible. Just seems comfortable to me and this leaves it up to the host to determine borders and "stagehands".

      1 · December 26, 2013

  • Kin

    December 25, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    I liked Deborahs response and adding a call sheet of some type would be nice. So we are all on the same page. If we are leading to be a professional group of photograhers, models, et. Would it not make better sense to be structured as one? Perhaps create our own book of rules, etiquette, processes, as a couple of examples. I would be willing to write it if we can get participation from the members.

    I for one would like to the group evolve into a more of a professonal group of aspring photographers, models, and make up artists. Build a brand name for ourselves. Now don't flame me to badly please!

    Nick

    December 25, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      There is a drawback about paying while signing up, as Ethan pointed out, photographers might be waiting until the last minute to sign up. However, as an additional thought, I think that when there is limited attendance, people would want to hurry to sign up to be sure they are going; I may be wrong about that. I guess depends on how many heads are authorized. Also, a waitlist is good in case someone wants to negotiate some money back from someone waiting.

      1 · December 25, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      I agree, no prize for helping, but being useful and helping is a character element, some are just more outgoing than others, that doesn't mean that they are not talented or not human, just means that their fire burns more slowly or in a different way. The star for helping just lets organizers and others know the kind of person one is and can be depended on for assistance. Just like you are not required to help the person in the burning car, but if you extend yourself to help, that should be recognized. The individuals that don't reach, usually don't grow or get a piece of the pie. This element, only that person can change.

      1 · December 25, 2013

  • Freeman

    I understand that this is rough draft, I'm just not exactly sure what is lead photographer to the model? Is this mean that photographer will stay with that model for the entire shoot?

    December 23, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Only loan to someone close enough that you know you will get it back. Otherwise, the photographer should obtain their own. That is one point of training. Get the equipment to photograph if you want to be a photographer. Sometimes a demonstration requires the use of an item which must me passed around, like a trigger. These should be brought to everyone's attention to return.

      1 · December 25, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      thanks Ken for everything, it was great

      1 · December 25, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    I am all for having and listing all details, I did that with the first few shoots I hosted. However, I quickly learned how detrimental that can be. I do not post names of models because I had 3 models get creepy requests from a photographer after I sent out their contact info.
    Most of the models I get for shoots are not group members, rather they are models whom I have personally worked with in the past or models who have contacted me hoping I will do a TF shoot with them. I barely do any TF work anymore, so prefer to have those models come to group shoots instead.

    I know from experience that even if the meetup time is set, shooting probably will not begin until an hour later.
    Photographers always seem to straggle in, congregate and talk about whose equipment is better, or why their philosophy of photography is superior to everyone elses, wasting time.

    December 25, 2013

  • Kin

    Merry Christmas... Taking time off today we figure it out tomorrow...

    December 25, 2013

  • Kin

    Everything is a rough draft, all suggestion is welcome.

    December 23, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Is the posted time correct? 12:00 AM is Mid-night. 12 PM is noon.

    December 18, 2013

    • Kahloy

      David, this is just a discussion on how to improve our meetups not an actual physical meeting.

      2 · December 22, 2013

  • Derick

    What's the latest on the idea of a blind file drop server?

    December 22, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Is the posted time of the event engraved in stone? Any chance that it might be changed a little later, after normal work hours of folks breaking rocks?

    December 13, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      I am not sure, Kin might intend this to be meeting, or perhaps just a discussion here.

      December 13, 2013

    • Kin

      No meeting, it up for discussing..,

      December 18, 2013

  • Freeman

    So, this will be a discussion event?

    December 15, 2013

    • Kin

      open discussion

      December 17, 2013

    • Freeman

      You weren't exactly interested in the point system earlier either, something happened?

      December 17, 2013

  • Calvin

    Hi everyone, I am new here! Looking forward to join the meet up once I move back to the State next year!

    December 16, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Point system sounds great! Ask Linda to re-wrap my prize after she handles it.... lol

    December 13, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Would be nice to have some sort of professionalism incentive. I.E. extra points if you don't hit on models.

    Have had some models say they would never do another group shoot cause some members were too horny/creepy.

    3 · December 10, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Unfortunately...

      December 13, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Maybe we should have only male model shoots for a few months? LOL

      1 · December 13, 2013

  • Kahloy

    Sounds like good resolutions to keep us involved, participating and contributing.
    Thanks for all you do, Kin.

    1 · December 9, 2013

    • Kin

      Inpute welcome too, try weed out bad

      December 9, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Sounds like a great idea!!!

    December 8, 2013

    • Kin

      Rough draft, input welcome too

      December 8, 2013

Cancelled

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