RE: [rlccef] Is It Just Me?

From: Don H.
Sent on: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 3:51 PM

Agreed!

Don

 

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Gregg and Dania
Sent: Tuesday, August 21,[masked]:51 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: RE: [rlccef] Is It Just Me?

 

Amen Bob.  Well said.

Yours in Liberty.
Gregg

Sent from my MOTOROLA ATRIX™ 2 on AT&T



-----Original message-----

From: Bob White <[address removed]>
To:
[address removed]
Sent:
Tue, Aug 21,[masked]:15:54 GMT+00:00
Subject:
RE: [rlccef] Is It Just Me?

Good Afternoon Everyone,
I have watched this thread with great interest and appreciation for what seems like an eternity but has really only been a few days. As the chairman of the organization upon whose meetup list these epistles have been flying back and forth, I suppose the time has come for me to chime in. This thread began last week with an email from Sean providing some factual information about Paul Ryan's voting record. Sean was sarcastically criticized by Len for what was called his irrelevant "opinion" and it was suggested that while he sat on his "comfy couch" others would be out trying to save the republic, or something to that effect. Sean responded in bad from by calling Len a "Fool". I suggested to Len at the time that his remarks constituted a cheap shot, and to Sean that his remarks were a low blow. Since that time the discourse has been a little more civil and folks have had ample opportunity to present their positions and their reasons for holding same. I'd like to offer a few observations and then respectfully ask that we simply let it go. I won't be offended though if some feel the need to blast away at something I say that might "work on their last good nerve".

1. It occurs to me that all of us are motivated by the same emotion. Love of country. I've admired the passion that everyone has brought to the debate and am thankful for each of you.

2. Ultimately we all want to achieve the same goal. Restoration of our Constitutional Republic. We may differ in our opinions on how we get there but as long as we keep that ultimate goal in mind we should be able to disagree along the way without losing our focus and irritating the crap out of each other.

3. A debate where all sides repeat the same arguments over and over again contributes to that loss of focus and irritation.  This has been an interesting discourse to this point but has, IMHO, run it's course.

Now a few observations as to the substance of the discussion. Again, fire away if you have to, but please be gentle. I'm actually a very sensitive guy.

1. Look at the address line above. It says "Republican Liberty Caucus". Remember us? "The conscience of the Republican Party". Our mission, to return the party to it's Jeffersonian roots of less government, lower taxes and more personal freedom and responsibility. We're the folks that begin every meeting by saying that we're not afraid to hold our own elected officials accountable; that we believe in principle over party always. That has to include every elected republican, regardless of the office, and every republican candidate, regardless of the office they seek. Otherwise we're just sound and fury signifying nothing. No one should be surprised that the RLC as an organization, or one or more of our members individually, would point out the truth about Paul Ryan's voting record, or issue a warning that, based on their records, a Ryan-Romney administration may not be the governing dream team the establishment republicans would like us to believe it will be if elected. Hopefully they'll be dazzled by their own rhetoric and actually do what they now promise they will do, but I have my doubts. I'll still support them once the convention is over because I agree that the alternative is worse. Thank you Matt for a good article on that point. Eyes wide open folks, eyes wide open.

2. Ron Paul, his supporters and his delegates are in fact being treated like crap by the republican establishment. The party is working furiously to de-certify lawfully won Ron Paul delegates and replace them with Romney delegates. Quite frankly, that pisses me off and it should you too. I don't blame the Ron Paul camp one bit for not wanting to go down without a fight. They should be allowed their time in the spotlight at the convention. They earned it.

3. The idea that if you continue to hold out for Ron Paul before the convention, or challenge the Romney-Ryan ticket you're somehow aiding the enemy or are out of touch with reality is flat out wrong. Giving Ron Paul and his lawfully won delegates a place at the table in Tampa will ultimately help the ticket. No ones supporters were more enthusiastic than Ron Paul's and no primary candidate came close to generating as much enthusiasm among young people as Ron Paul. Huge crowds on college campuses all over the country are testament to that fact. Snubbing him and his supporters is a great way to get them fired up to support Romney-Ryan once the convention is over, right? All those young people that we always say the party needs are really going to be enthusiastic about getting involved when they see him disrespected like that, right?  I think not.

   Does anyone remember the democrat convention in 2008. They were completely divided. Remember PUMA? For those that don't, that was the acronym adopted by Hillary Clinton supporters. It stood for Party Unity My Ass. They were the original "birthers". They were the first to question Obama's eligibility based on the idea that he might not be a natural born US Citizen. They overcame all that and went on to win in November. Give Ron Paul his rightful place on the podium in Tampa and the opportunity to make his case for Liberty under the Constitution, and I believe you'll see that he and his supporters will ultimately back the party nominee, which I agree will be Romney. We, I was a Ron Paul supporter throughout the primary, don't want four more years of Obama any more than the rest of you, Frank's arguments about fiscal implosion notwithstanding.

4. I share some of the same concerns that others do regarding Ron Paul's position on Iran. While I agree with the reasoning and logic which underpin his position intellectually, I also recognize as a realist that there have always been and will always be times throughout history where truly mad people have come into power and created hellish destruction and committed gross atrocities against others on a mass scale. Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs may well be the next time. I agree Roger, that we have an obligation to stay powerful enough as a nation to be able to counter that type of threat. I don't think it requires an interventionist foreign policy waged all around the globe to do that. But let me ask you this. If your house is burning down and your neighbors house is burning down; which fire are you going to put out first? We are burning down fiscally and economically. I supported Ron Paul because his economic plan gives us the best chance to put  our own fire out as quickly as possible. If we perish in the flames of crushing debt and the fiscal and economic lunacy being  practiced by both democrats and republicans in Washington for lo these many generations, how are we going to be there to help our neighbor put out his fire?

Sorry this ran long folks. I really didn't mean for it to. In closing I'll just refer to my first set of observations, 1-3. I have tremendous respect for all of you and appreciate and admire the passion you bring to this fight! I really do think it's time we let this thread die a merciful death. All are free to respond here if you wish, just be advised that I will not reply under any circumstances.

Very Best Personal Regards,
Bob White









From: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [rlccef] Is It Just Me?
To: [address removed]
Date: Tue, 21 Aug[masked]:01:26 -0400

Frank,

I suspect Hallmark won't be making any contractual offers to either of us, but that aside;

 

If I'm not mistaken, August 30, 2012 is the deadline for a nominee and a candidate must be declared BY that date. If the race is close, a decision must be arrived at by the republican party as to who their candidate will be, by that date. The court of public opinion may well have made the decision before that, which I believe is the case now. The public doesn't see a close race between Romney and Ron Paul. A majority of the public have, arguably, already made up their minds, if not FOR Romney, they've already decided AGAINST Dr. Paul. 

 

I fully agree, and have said often, that Ron Paul has some very good ideas that I agree with - I would also support the adoption of those ideas by Romney, or any other candidate, as a good idea is "good" on its own merit, and not good because of who holds it. I think it is more plausible to think Romney would adopt some of Ron Paul's ideas than to think Ron Paul will get the nomination and the election, and implement those ideas himself. 

 

It is my belief that the primary objective in this election is, simply, to defeat Obama. We must eliminate Obama, the most destructive problem we have, before we can work on repairing the damage Obama has done. Any and all candidates, except Gary Johnson, would be a better option than Obama. So, we must support the candidate with the best chance of defeating Obama. This election is not a choice as to who any of us think is a good candidate. It simply comes down to who we think can beat Obama. 

 

If Freedom is to survive, we must defeat Obama. Ron Paul just is not in a position to make that happen at this time, or by August 30.

 

Have a good day at work - I'm off to Boynton Beach to hear Tom Trento in a debate this evening.

Best Regards,

Roger 

 

 

 

 



 

On Aug 21, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Frank Zilaitis wrote:

 

Roger,

 

The reality is that Romney is not yet the nominee.  I have already effectively made a suggestion to Pat regarding what can be done before we head into the battle otherwise known as the General Election.  (I have also taken the time to "compete" with your recent poem via my "My Masters" masterpiece. :))  I simply do not want to roll over and play dead until Thursday, August 30, 2012.

 

The epiphany is that, after a study of the records of Romney (the Obamney Care commercials starring Tim Pawlenty are coming) and Ryan (let's distract the folks while we kick the can to 2030 and beyond, it appears that the only candidate OPPOSITE of President Obama is Ron Paul in our camp.  If we do not have the guts to nominate Dr. Paul, let's alternatively insist that Romney/Ryan adopt the Ron Paul Plan.  It is bold and courageous and, if the Romney/Ryan team will not consider running with it, then we should expect merely less of the same in a Romney/Ryan administration.  I do not want the same, more or less, Roger.

 

I want the freedom to survive as my own master following a quick government fiscal implosion, not some insane rot-on-the-vine socialist/communist scenario touted by the folks upset by the capital karma but unable to perform. :)  On my calendar, we have until next Thursday to alter the course of history.  In the meantime, I am getting back to work.

 

Give me liberty or give me death. . . at my own hands and not at the hands of my masters.

 

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Roger Gangitano <[address removed]> wrote:

Frank,

You ask if anyone will join you in reality. The reality is; There are only 77 days days left before we head to the polls. Is there ANTHING new about Ron Paul that the American voter hasn't already heard - Something that would cause an epiphany and a surge of support for Dr. Paul? I just can't believe that, at this point in time, anyone expects a sudden  Ron Paul to rise in the polls, surpass Romney, and continue to gain enough support to beat Obama. 

 

Did I read your comment correctly? Did you say that you, under any circumstances, would be "content to see President Obama taking full responsibility for imploding the federal government from a fiscal perspective and doing it quickly."? I'm not content with Obama remaining in office under any circumstances, and I'm not willing to risk a second Obama term by trying convince the public that Ron Paul can win.

 

Let's ALL join together with a reality check. There are only 77 days left until this election. We need to support the front runner to defeat Obama, not try to convince the public to back Dr. Paul, when they have NOT supported him in sufficient numbers as yet. What would cause them to support him now? 

 

Like it or not - That's the reality of our situation. 77 days.... Including today, and it's already 10:30am. The candidates are rounding the last turn with Dr. Paul, Gary Johnson, and the rest of the starting contenders far behind with no chance of catching the leaders... It's a two-man race at this point and Romney and Obama are all alone, neck and neck, as we come into the final stretch with only 77 days left to go! This one looks like it will be a photo-finish, folks, and Ron Paul is NOT in the picture. Sorry to say - THAT is reality. (And my poor imitation of a guy calling a horse-race!)

 

77 days.  .... and counting down.

 

Roger

 

 



 

On Aug 21, 2012, at 9:39 AM, Frank Zilaitis wrote:

 

Somehow I missed the news on Ron Paul's withdrawal as a candidate for the Republican nomination Len.

 

Again folks, are we operating within the rules or with a mob mentality.  I am getting concerned that I am going to have to cave and purchase a copy of Arguing with Idiots.  Can someone tell me who wrote that book?  But wait a minute, maybe I do not want to read it if the author was an atheist, or a Ron Paul fan, or a Democrat, . . .?  I digress.

 

:)

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Len Lemmer <[address removed]> wrote:

The Ron Paul candidacy is over. If you want to begin a Ron Paul 2016 campaign, have at it. I hope that we still have elections in four years.

On Aug 21,[masked]:17 AM, "Frank Zilaitis" <[address removed]> wrote:

Thank you Pat for sharing your perspective.

 

First and foremost, your comment about shouting from the sidelines is a bit harsh considering my track record with the Republican Party I chose to join in 2009 after having had no party affiliation for my entire life.  But I will get over your insult if that's what you meant it to be.

 

I am also really tired of folks ignorantly labeling me a Ron Paul fan.  Over the past two or three years, thanks to intellectuals like Scott Ellis and Matt Nye, I have learned that I am an Objectivist.  If you read any of my campaign materials for state committeeman, you would not have leveled yet another insult.

 

From an Objectivist point of view, it is irrational (not to mention disrespectful) to ignore laws (constitutions, statutes, rules and regulations, ordinances, etc.), if we are indeed are a government of laws and not of men.  The mob mentality I see in these threads is absolutely appalling.  It is even more alarming to see the rationalizing of Romney/Ryan that folks are doing given the circumstances.  Interestingly enough, if you read the Ron Paul Plan and compared to Romney's or Ryan's plans, you would see that we get a balanced budget inside of a presidential term.  Not in 2030 or 2040.  So, from a logic and reason perspective, I do propose that, since Ron Paul is the only candidate left in the Republican Party with the plan that is opposite of President Obama's and Romney/Ryan's plans, it is indeed time to make one last sanity check Pat.  Otherwise, I, personally, am content to see President Obama taking full responsibility for imploding the federal government from a fiscal perspective and doing it quickly.  I do not want a rationalist Republican in the big chair in 2013 and then see the Republican Party get destroyed over a longer term.

 

The movie I have seen was 2008 starring John McCain and Sarah Palin.  The ending was real bad for Republicans, because they failed to walk the walk in the land of principles.  I joined the Republican Party in  2009, because I still believed it was possible to work within the Party to bring about the change I wanted to see and the change I thought folks who are members of the Tea Party, 9-12, Space Coast Patriots and other groups wanted to see.  Perhaps I am mistaken?

 

President Obama is possibly the most principled politician of all time. (I am wearing my flak jacket today. :))  He appears to be a collectivist and is using every ounce of his energy to make sure the United States of America continues down that path toward communism.  Amazingly, Speaker John Boehner lead the charge in the most recent raising of the debt ceiling last summer.  At this moment, I am reminded of the title of a book former Chrysler Chairman Lee Iacoca wrote years ago?  Where have all the leaders gone?

 

Can anyone join me in reality?  Or should we just continue to watch movies until the U.S. Government fiscally implodes?

 

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 5:26 AM, Pat Pasley <[address removed]> wrote:

Frank,
There is no doubt that you have always been a Ron Paul supporter and I admire your loyalty to him.

But, this country went through an election were the majority of people voted for Romney.  There were
some other very good candidates, but they also were rejected.  What I did notice was that Ron Paul always had
the least amount of votes with I think the exception of one state.

I am very curious as to what you propose we should do.  Should we reject Romney/Ryan and demand that
Ron Paul be the candidate?  Do you really believe at this late date that Ron Paul would be elected President? 

This country is at the brink of going under.  If you have seen the movie 2016, you understand that Obama was
just getting started in his first term.  He will finish the job of destroying us if he is re-elected.

Many of us are coming off a primary election that was exhausting work.  But the November election
is right around the corner and we understand what is at stake.  What we need are more supporters
that will roll up their sleeves and join us....not just shout from the sidelines.    We could use your energy
in helping us. 

We are working hard to save this country not only for ourselves but for you and your family as well.

Pat







On 8/20/[masked]:36 PM, Frank Zilaitis wrote:

Is it just me or is anyone else concerned that Republican state parties are spending money on Mitt Romney's campaign before we have formally nominated him?

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-20/romney-raised-40-million-last-month-for-presidential-run 

 

Or is it time to ignore our own party rules, shut up and support the presumptive nominee?
Frank Zilaitis





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